To like Keir Starmer?

[Emmanuelll]

Unlike Tony Blair, he comes from a working class background - his siblings would still call themselves working class.

As a very bright lawyer, he could have sought a path which made him rich quickly but instead chose human rights which isn’t an easy route to take and he’s defended ‘the little guy’ against corporations. He’s also anti-death penalty.

Ok, he’s a Sir, and I’ve heard people (perhaps not unreasonably) question why the leader of the Labour Party would have a title like that. But he earned it through work for the criminal justice system.

On the face of it, it seems as though he deserves a chance.

I would much rather have him as PM than a former Bullingdon club member who used to burn money in front of homeless people for the fun of it.

I think so. You have to look at what happened with Diane Abbott. Even with some duff handling what did he do? Referred to her in the most sweet and respectful terms in the Commons once PM. But was he prepared to make the left of the Labour Party effectively beg or make special pleading in public? That is a guy who knows he has control. Not bothered.

Yes the Tories should be really worried. They are a small party and Labour can drown them out easily. The biggest mistake will be for them to pick a leader to meet the challenges of Reform. They must target Labour which is going to be hard: but outshouting Farage will never work. I hope they get their act together but the candidates they have look very poor and too belligerent.

I think you're conveniently forgetting the millions of pounds that were wasted in the NHS under Blair's Labour.

What were those millions of £ wasted on? The NHS worked under Blair’s government. The last lot threw money at it and made it worse.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/reports/high-performing-nhs-review-progress-1997-2010

But it was shortsighted

the interest on these loans is huge it has to be paid back and where does the money come from

its not the reason why the NHS is in serious trouble there are many adding factors mainly the last government but the issues were there propping it up has just been a waste of time and money radical reform has long been overdue

that really means the UK having a different heath system and this will take time but I beleive this is the what we are moving towards

Some people have been saying for years 'the NHS doesn't work' etc. but my experience has been that it did work fine under Blair's administration.

The alternative is something like the US has, where people die after having an accident because they needed to have an operation immediately and the surgeon wasn't willing to do the operation until the person's insurance company agreed to it.

Exactly that. I’m very interested to see what’s proposed in the way of reforming it over the coming months because it’s definitely needed. I don’t think that includes the funding model, the health of the country will go through the floor if it’s not free at the point of delivery.

It was certainly better under the last Labour government but it’s wasn’t fine (I had ds at the time in my area maternity care was poor so want not just my experience)

and no the US system is not the only alternative France and Germany have superior healthcare system preventative healthcare is far more prevalent (along with personal responsibility)

That is most certainly is not the only alternative. That would never happen in France, for example.

There is no free at the point of service healthcare in France - it's not like America but you still have to have insurance.

Yes I know, I live in France. But nobody is denied healthcare because they are too poor to pay. The government provides top up insurance for people under a certain income level, and anyone who is employed is automatically enrolled into health insurance via their employer. And even then if you needed urgent medical attention they would never, ever ask for your insurance details first. It would be sorted out later. When I have been to A&E in public hospitals I have had to provide my health card (which everyone has, this is for the part covered by social security, not insurance) but was never charged anything. I once went to A&E in a private hospital needing stitches and I received a bill for about €20 six months later which my health insurance covered.

I am aware France’s healthcare system is not free at point of service but it’s all round a far better healthcare service than we have and those on benefits and low wages are able to access healthcare

we should expect better but for too long we have been led to believe we should be thankful for the NHS

Their answer to the failing NHS was to just throw billions of pounds at it, but it didn't go to where it was needed most. They gave drs. a 26% pay increase plus a large rise in pensions but let them reduce their working hours. They employed pen pushers that weren't needed, in 4 years alone the NHS employed 52,000 more administrators.

Out of the £3.6 billion pledged to the NHS in 2005 just £475 million was directed towards improving treatment of patients.

But wasn’t it the case that public satisfaction with the NHS hit a record high during Blair’s era? So in those terms and also bringing down waiting lists, it was very successful. In other words the outcome was positive.

It's almost like diverting loads of clinical specialists to spend more of their time on admin roles might not have been the most efficient or productive way to deploy them.

I always find the idea that a system as vast and complex as the NHS doesn't need absolutely loads of admin and some really good management (which in the main it isn't willing to pay properly for) really strange. Up there with the idea that people who make great clinicians will also make great managers.

I agree about good management being key. You’ll find the majority think the NHS has too much admin though (it doesn’t).

Oh Lordy, despite you being a vehement Labour fan I do agree. The NHS needs more, and more influential, management. If it was run like Tescos or Wetherspoons it would be much better.

Yes, that was absolutely the case. There’s a graph if you scroll down which I’ve tried and failed to c+p.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/reports/public-satisfaction-nhs-and-social-care-2022

Isn’t it nice to agree even if we have different views on lots of things? Discussion should be more like this.

👍

Yes, it’s great, I wish more discussions were like it.

One of the great things about the thanks function is you can catch who thanked you and then changed their minds…not you Cardibach - your thanks is appreciated - but another.

I’m not sure this is reliable - I know sometimes I like a post then when I go back to the thread it’s not there. Just a thought.

I don’t. I said they should be. 🤷‍♀️