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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if anyone else on MN is not anti-trans?

1000 replies

Lilieee · 09/07/2024 01:38

I'm not interested in someone 'debunking the trans agenda' or how no one on here is like that, all I'm interested in is if any pro-trans Mumsnetters could pop up so I don't feel alone Grin

OP posts:
Thread gallery
26
TheKeatingFive · 09/07/2024 07:45

DoorPath · 09/07/2024 07:44

To all the posters worrying about cis women feeling comfortable in rape crisis centres...why do you think a trans woman might be there? Because she has been raped and is in crisis and seeking care.

There is no fucking third space, by the way. Trans women are raped. They should be able to seek care. Regardless of transphobes' feelings.

Of course they should be able to seek care. But not in group setting with women.

HowIrresponsible · 09/07/2024 07:46

DoorPath · 09/07/2024 07:44

To all the posters worrying about cis women feeling comfortable in rape crisis centres...why do you think a trans woman might be there? Because she has been raped and is in crisis and seeking care.

There is no fucking third space, by the way. Trans women are raped. They should be able to seek care. Regardless of transphobes' feelings.

Then they should go to a rape crisis centre for victim of male rape. Simple.

DoorPath · 09/07/2024 07:46

@ghostlyliving Your assertion that trans women seeking care in a rape crisis centre are there because hearing about other women being raped is arousing is...Jesus fucking Christ, it's just dispicible.

BowlOfNoodles · 09/07/2024 07:46

OolongTeaDrinker · 09/07/2024 07:41

I'm neither pro or anti trans. People can live their lives how they like as long as it doesn't infringe on other people. Men pretending to be woman and wanting to gain access to single sex spaces and women's sport is a hard no from me. But that doesn't make me 'anti' anything.

I hate how this 'anti' agenda is pushed - women's views are being defined as how they relate to a subset of men, rather than as being a standalone 'pro' women stance.

Especially mma fighting!! Just wtf

protectoroftherealm · 09/07/2024 07:46

DoorPath · 09/07/2024 07:28

@TheKeatingFive Cis women are not at risk from trans women

Real women aren't at risk from Trans Women no, because they don't exist. We're at risk from men.

FrenchFancie · 09/07/2024 07:46

SoreAndTired1 · 09/07/2024 07:43

@FrenchFancie This is not Gay 2.0. The gay struggle is nothing remotely like trans.

You don't understand the fuss about not wanting a male body in the ladies? Really? Ever spoken to a rape survivor? Ever wondered why male and female spaces are separated by sex, in the first place?

And sorry to tell you, but the attitudes towards trans is going more to a shift of anti, as each year passes. Poll after poll after poll shows a gradual decrease of people supporting trans, the more trans push themselves on women. Feminists are now fighting back. And guess what? We're winning the argument. In 10 years time, as the misogynistic and medical scandal that is trans is dead, we will all wonder how we were so brainwashed into sterilising children and removing womens single sex spaces because of (until recently) very successful Mens Rights movement in the trans ideology. There is a reason Gender Ideology is losing this war.

Well I’m a rape survivor myself so, yes, I do understand. Thanks for that.

i agree it’s not gay 2.0 - which is why I have said things are similar but not, you will note, identical.

MondayYogurt · 09/07/2024 07:46

Read reddit/detrans

That’s all.

SoreAndTired1 · 09/07/2024 07:46

DoorPath · 09/07/2024 07:44

To all the posters worrying about cis women feeling comfortable in rape crisis centres...why do you think a trans woman might be there? Because she has been raped and is in crisis and seeking care.

There is no fucking third space, by the way. Trans women are raped. They should be able to seek care. Regardless of transphobes' feelings.

Women. Not 'cis' women.

If a MALE is raped, he needs to be in a facility for him. A womens facility is not for him. His rights to invade womens spaces is NOT a fucking right!

Whataloadofutterutternonesense · 09/07/2024 07:47

Wow the misogyny on here

CurlewKate · 09/07/2024 07:47

@Begaydocrime94 "super pro-trans and feel at home with the queer community"

Could you explain what being super pro trans means?

Incidenrallly, when you say you feel at home in the queer community, do you ever think about the older feminists who stood shoulder to shoulder with gay men and lesbians against "queer bashing"? During the hideousness of the AIDS crisis?

DanielGault · 09/07/2024 07:47

Brokenpebbles · 09/07/2024 07:40

Does basic respect extend to me? I'm a survivor of male domestic violence. I don't want males in the next hospital bed to me, in the next toilet cubicle to me, in the room if I'm discussing the violence against me. Do I deserve a single sex space? Yes or no?

Can't remember if I mentioned this up thread, think I did, but there's no entitlement to single sex wards in Ireland. I can see how it must be awful as a survivor, I felt a bit uncomfortable myself but you were just lumped in to a ward with lots of men, same toilet and shower facilities and just a curtain to protect you from the other patients. So it kind of makes the trans argument a side issue. There's no need for people to pretend to be trans to have lots of access to women unfortunately.

Feelsodrained · 09/07/2024 07:47

I was first of all quite shocked when I read GC posts as I couldn’t believe people were saying stuff like that. Then I got a bit caught up in it and became really quite GC and created an anonymous Twitter account where I could vent. Then I gradually stopped caring as much, deleted my twitter, and that’s where I am now. It really doesn’t impact on my life. The country is not overrun by trans people, I’ve never encountered anyone obviously male in a single sex space and there are far more important things to worry about if you are pro womens rights. So my position now is I don’t care.

MoveToParis · 09/07/2024 07:48

DoorPath · 09/07/2024 07:20

Do all the people objecting to being called a cis woman also object to being called a straight woman or a white woman? Because you see straight, white, cis woman as "normal"? Check your fucking privilege.

The standard for trans people is “I am what I identify as”
The standard for women is “You will identify publicly as what I tell you you are.”

If you reject the right of those whom you label cis to say “actually, it’s just woman” can’t you at least own that you think Trans people (we know trans women in reality) get to tell everyone what their identity is, both themselves and other people.

Oldfatandfrumpy · 09/07/2024 07:48

TheKeatingFive · 09/07/2024 06:04

And I don’t believe that letting other people have rights erodes women’s rights. There aren’t a finite amount of human rights to share - it’s not a cake.

Well how do you accommodate women who need single sex spaces then? In prisons, refuges, counselling?

How are their rights to these things going to be respected?

Well generally they just get told to #bekind and job done, they should have no issues 🙄

SoreAndTired1 · 09/07/2024 07:49

DoorPath · 09/07/2024 07:46

@ghostlyliving Your assertion that trans women seeking care in a rape crisis centre are there because hearing about other women being raped is arousing is...Jesus fucking Christ, it's just dispicible.

Look up Sarah Summers. There was a (obvious, and dressed stereotypically as one) male in her group trauma session. He was GRINNING as she was recounting her trauma. He was clearly getting off on it. But because he 'identified' as a transwoman, he used that loophole and was allowed to do it.

Startingagainandagain · 09/07/2024 07:50

I have nothing against trans people.

I think there is very vocal group here who seem to think they are the number one issue/threat in life.

While I suspect most of us could not care less as we are instead more interested in the economy, housing, bills, schools, jobs and so on and that politically these issues are the ones that matter.

If someone feels happier by transitioning I wish them well and let them get on with their life and certainly don't want them to be targeted/discriminated against because they are transgender.

I am however against under 18 undergoing a transition process because I don't think anyone is ready emotionally and mentally to make that decision as such a young age.

PeachyKeane · 09/07/2024 07:51

I'm pro womens rights. If that makes me anti trans then there's clearly a clash of rights. I'd always support women over men.

I think it's great that this is a rare site where women are allowed to chat about their concerns without censorship.

BitOutOfPractice · 09/07/2024 07:51

I also not anti-trans and mighty sick of the hatred and vitriol and just bloody-mindedness that seems so prevalent on almost every thread on mn. Im also sick of anyone who expresses any speck of difference of opinion being shouted down on mn. Tbh it often puts me off coming here

borntobequiet · 09/07/2024 07:52

DoorPath · 09/07/2024 07:06

Try to think of it like race. If a racist woman didn't want to share a rape crisis centre with a black woman, would you suggest the black woman who had been raped should be forced to leave, because the racist is uncomfortable?

Another false equivalence. Black women are women. Transwomen are men.

TheKeatingFive · 09/07/2024 07:52

mighty sick of the hatred and vitriol and just bloody-mindedness that seems so prevalent on almost every thread on mn

Yet again ... do you want to give us some examples of what you're talking about?

wildfellhall · 09/07/2024 07:52

I think the Rachel Dolezal (now known as Nkechi Diallo) is a useful ethical comparison just for discussion purposes (!) because she believed her identity was black and others felt she was fraudulent and effectively culturally appropriating the appearance of another race which she did not have the right to use in the marks of her identity.

Trans rights are a bit similar surely as they rest on a conflict of definition?

There are many trans people who share concerns about the areas of conflict of interest (sport and medical intervention with children) and also don't want to tell people what pronouns they need to use.

None of this is as simple as it's presented.

I would want a long term positive open discussion about how everyone can be best accomodated.

I think most people agree there are some men who say they're trans who prove the need to discuss, at the very least, separate birth origin sex spaces.

The numbers of sexually abusuve men is not small - this is why we need to protect all vulnerable people from them - the way we've always done it is with separate spaces - no one has told me how you distinguish between a genuine trans woman and a sexually predatory man. This is the crux of it to me.

I don't want to harm the lovely trans people I know. But what do you do to protect women?

Also no one talks about Muslim women and how separate sex spaces are hugely important. Changing this has a huge impact and no one talks about it that I ever hear.

DoorPath · 09/07/2024 07:53

@ItWasTheBestOfTimes Woah, cis women are not bigots! Just the transphobic ones are! The rest of us cis women will happily use the women's changing room. A third space just for bigots, and anyone can use it - transphobes, homophobes, racists - at least we'd all know who you are then.

PrincessHoneysuckle · 09/07/2024 07:53

Garlickest · 09/07/2024 02:41

I'm pro-women.

If defending women's (female) rights means being anti-trans, then transgenderism is an anti-women movement.

Same

AGodawfulsmallaffair · 09/07/2024 07:53

Southlondoner88 · 09/07/2024 07:31

This

These debates about trans showering with kids and raping women are like the debates about gay people a few decades ago. Actually only in 2015 in Ireland when there was a vote on legalising gay marriage there were posters put up everywhere saying things like ‘we don’t want our children to hear the sounds of sodomy.’ why do children always get mentioned in these debates, paedophiles already exist, why would a trans person be anymore likely to assault a child or a woman?

And if we’re using the fake trans debate where men can pretend to be women to assault a child or cis woman then can’t they lure women in under false pretence already? Men can dress in uniform to gain people’s trust, it’s happened before and they can pretend to be someone they’re not online to commit crimes, trans rights won’t increase crime rates the same way gay rights didn’t.

I remember men being mostly homophobic about gay men. Most women didn’t give a shit, and felt safe with gay men for a reason.

I didn’t know any women who were phobic about lesbians, while a fair proportion of men just leered.

Drfosters · 09/07/2024 07:53

@Startingagainandagain ‘I am however against under 18 undergoing a transition process because I don't think anyone is ready emotionally and mentally to make that decision as such a young age’

To some people that is transphobic to say that. You are inadvertently bigoted against trans people who knew from an early age they were trans

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