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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

It's an in law one...

1000 replies

inlawproblems · 07/07/2024 20:31

First of all, I must start by saying that I love my PIL... 99% of the time.

DH has two brothers. One of them lives in the same town as us with his wife and children, and the other lives five hours away with his wife and child. We get on well with the one who lives five hours away but we haven't seen them for over a year due to the distance. They will be visiting next weekend and we are looking forward to seeing them.

Things aren't so great with my other BIL and his wife. His wife hasn't spoken to us for 18 months since our daughter was born, for a really stupid reason. He is backing his wife up but we don't think he really believes they are in the right. Before my daughter's birth we all got on well.

Literally everyone thinks they are being completely ridiculous and the thing they are upset about is utterly trivial. To avoid drip feeding, they are upset that we named our daughter a very common top 10 name which also happens to be their daughter's second middle name.

Anyway. We have invited the visiting BIL and his wife and child for Sunday lunch next weekend. We were also planning on inviting PIL.

When I mentioned this to FIL two weeks ago he said he was rather hoping that we would do something all together. I said that until BIL and SIL acknowledge how hurtful their behaviour has been and apologise to us, we don't want to have a relationship with them. FIL said they will never explain or apologise, and so I said in that case we won't be seeing them. He wants us to just let it go and play happy families. I made it very clear that doesn't work for us.

Today PIL came round for lunch and everything was normal, nobody mentioned next weekend. And then an hour or so after they'd gone home, MIL put a message on the family WhatsApp group saying they want us all to come round for cake next Saturday afternoon and Grandma will be there too.

We have not replied yet. We don't want to go. We feel that we are being strongarmed into seeing them and pretending everything is normal, when what we want is to have a discussion. (They have refused multiple requests from us to meet and talk.) PIL are banking on the fact that if we go next weekend we won't want to cause a scene in front of Grandma, or be unpleasant to SIL who is two months postpartum. (I wouldn't piss on her if she were on fire at this point but I recognise that the optics of having a go at a woman who's just had a baby in front of the entire family aren't great.) They're right about us not wanting to make a scene in those circumstances. That's why we don't want to go.

AIBU?

Thanks for reading if you made it to the end of this!

OP posts:
RosieChardonnay · 08/07/2024 13:26

So you think you SIL might have an issue with your husband?
Does he usually have trouble controlling his anger?

DodoTired · 08/07/2024 13:27

inlawproblems · 08/07/2024 13:22

I don't know what DH said. I wasn't there. I understand why he was angry to learn that the reason they had frozen us out since the birth of our daughter was not an understandable reason after all but something completely trivial.

But I haven't behaved in that way at all. I tried so hard to be conciliatory. And not only did it not work, BIL is maintaining that it is my fault.

Is that what your husband tells you about BIL? How do you know that’s what he thinks?

inlawproblems · 08/07/2024 13:28

housethatbuiltme · 08/07/2024 13:26

'we need our feelings to be acknowledged'

to quote Stephen Fry:

'It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what.'

You feel offended by everything your SIL does... thats YOUR problem.

They don't owe you anything. Your feelings are your own issue to deal with and no one else is responsible for how you feel or react. You're suppose to learn this as you grow up, my toddler is currently learning this but you have got to adulthood still blaming everyone else for something only your have any control of.

Just stop being offended by everything she does, its that simple.

You do realise that you are talking about someone who is so very offended that we used her daughter's middle name that she has caused an irreparable rift in her husband's family, yeah?

OP posts:
inlawproblems · 08/07/2024 13:30

RosieChardonnay · 08/07/2024 13:26

So you think you SIL might have an issue with your husband?
Does he usually have trouble controlling his anger?

I'm not sure whether my SIL and my DH have ever been alone together TBH.

OP posts:
RosieChardonnay · 08/07/2024 13:30

inlawproblems · 08/07/2024 13:28

You do realise that you are talking about someone who is so very offended that we used her daughter's middle name that she has caused an irreparable rift in her husband's family, yeah?

You only have control over your own actions OP.

inlawproblems · 08/07/2024 13:31

RosieChardonnay · 08/07/2024 13:30

You only have control over your own actions OP.

We are trying to control our own actions by setting some boundaries in response to the situation. That's all we can do. We just don't want to be bulldozered.

OP posts:
Demonhunter · 08/07/2024 13:31

The way you're trying to hold PILs account for the behaviour of 4 adults and expecting them to help sort out the behaviour and fall out of FOUR ADULTS, is possibly the most pathetic thing I've read. You seriously need to grow the fuck up and stop expecting your husbands parents to fight your battles.

inlawproblems · 08/07/2024 13:32

DodoTired · 08/07/2024 13:27

Is that what your husband tells you about BIL? How do you know that’s what he thinks?

I don't understand the question.

OP posts:
RosieChardonnay · 08/07/2024 13:32

inlawproblems · 08/07/2024 13:30

I'm not sure whether my SIL and my DH have ever been alone together TBH.

They don't have to be alone together for her to make an opinion on him. Do you think she finds him agressive/ confrontational?

NonPlayerCharacter · 08/07/2024 13:34

OP, you are never going to get the apology you want, so make all your decisions based on that. If you think it's worth never seeing them at family gatherings and being complicit and even co-operative in their attempts to ruin the relationships between the cousins, so be it. Just be prepared to explain this when the kids are older, and don't insist that your PILs take sides because this really isn't their fight. I think if I were your adult child hearing why I'd been denied a childhood with that side of the family, I wouldn't think it was the hill worth dying on. You've got your beautiful child after so much loss and heartbreak - is it this important?

They are being utter fuckwits but the level of toxicity you are prepared to help stoke with them over it, with the grandparents and kids in the middle, really makes me think there must be more going on here than you are telling us. It really sounds as if it's more about your need to be acknowledged as right than any kind of greater good.

inlawproblems · 08/07/2024 13:35

RosieChardonnay · 08/07/2024 13:32

They don't have to be alone together for her to make an opinion on him. Do you think she finds him agressive/ confrontational?

Edited

No, I don't think so.

He has a temper on him but it is rarely seen in public. When we have rows (which is not that often but it can happen given that we've got a lot going on and neither of us is getting much sleep) he does tend to overreact. But I've never seen him be anything other than calm at a family event and I don't think he's ever been in the same room as her without me there.

OP posts:
rainbowstardrops · 08/07/2024 13:36

Bloody hell, what a load of drama from both sides! I feel sorry for your in-laws having two difficult DILs!
It's like a playground spat and who's going to blink first and win/lose. Seriously.

inlawproblems · 08/07/2024 13:39

NonPlayerCharacter · 08/07/2024 13:34

OP, you are never going to get the apology you want, so make all your decisions based on that. If you think it's worth never seeing them at family gatherings and being complicit and even co-operative in their attempts to ruin the relationships between the cousins, so be it. Just be prepared to explain this when the kids are older, and don't insist that your PILs take sides because this really isn't their fight. I think if I were your adult child hearing why I'd been denied a childhood with that side of the family, I wouldn't think it was the hill worth dying on. You've got your beautiful child after so much loss and heartbreak - is it this important?

They are being utter fuckwits but the level of toxicity you are prepared to help stoke with them over it, with the grandparents and kids in the middle, really makes me think there must be more going on here than you are telling us. It really sounds as if it's more about your need to be acknowledged as right than any kind of greater good.

The kids aren't stupid though, even if we see each other from time to time. At some point they're going to want to know why we don't see each other more often, why we're never invited to their house and why they never come to ours when we live so close. How do I tell my little girl that before she was born we all got on fine but they don't want a relationship with us anymore because of her name?

OP posts:
housethatbuiltme · 08/07/2024 13:40

inlawproblems · 08/07/2024 13:28

You do realise that you are talking about someone who is so very offended that we used her daughter's middle name that she has caused an irreparable rift in her husband's family, yeah?

The only person causing a rift is the one trying to host exclusive events, refusing to attend anything they are invited to and blaming others in the family for not 'taking their side'.

Which is you.

You don't need to talk at all, if you never talk to each other again thats absoloutly fine but you need to act like adults which means still attending family social event and sitting in polite company without screaming at each other (even if that means you say nothing to each other).

Your post about DH yelling on the bus makes you both sound unhinged, you are literally admitting not in control of your emotions and behavior and somehow blaming others for your actions.

They do not need to have it out with you or apologize because you feel hurt. You are trying to constantly rekindle an argument they have categorically finished and walked away from (which is the mature thing for them to do). When you don't agree you disagree and walk away. They are allowed to go NC with you if they want to but you don't get to put PIL in the middle insisting on 'sides'.

People cut off toxic family, the fact you are trying to ban them from cutting you off by demanding they talk to you is in itself very toxic. They haven't cut your kids off from their kids or you off from PIL, they aren't using manipulation or family as a weapon (although you are trying to) they have cut themselves of from YOU... you have to accept it.

Bluebirdover · 08/07/2024 13:41

The kids aren't stupid though, even if we see each other from time to time. At some point they're going to want to know why we don't see each other more often, why we're never invited to their house and why they never come to ours when we live so close. How do I tell my little girl that before she was born we all got on fine but they don't want a relationship with us anymore because of her name?*

You don't, you just say we don't get along, they have odd values?

You really don't need to drag even more people into this?

inlawproblems · 08/07/2024 13:41

housethatbuiltme · 08/07/2024 13:40

The only person causing a rift is the one trying to host exclusive events, refusing to attend anything they are invited to and blaming others in the family for not 'taking their side'.

Which is you.

You don't need to talk at all, if you never talk to each other again thats absoloutly fine but you need to act like adults which means still attending family social event and sitting in polite company without screaming at each other (even if that means you say nothing to each other).

Your post about DH yelling on the bus makes you both sound unhinged, you are literally admitting not in control of your emotions and behavior and somehow blaming others for your actions.

They do not need to have it out with you or apologize because you feel hurt. You are trying to constantly rekindle an argument they have categorically finished and walked away from (which is the mature thing for them to do). When you don't agree you disagree and walk away. They are allowed to go NC with you if they want to but you don't get to put PIL in the middle insisting on 'sides'.

People cut off toxic family, the fact you are trying to ban them from cutting you off by demanding they talk to you is in itself very toxic. They haven't cut your kids off from their kids or you off from PIL, they aren't using manipulation or family as a weapon (although you are trying to) they have cut themselves of from YOU... you have to accept it.

We're not trying to ban them from cutting us off! We're asking everyone to accept the fact that we also have the right to cut them off. That we are allowed to protect ourselves and our children from being further hurt by them, even if it means PIL don't get their family photo.

OP posts:
Pipsquiggle · 08/07/2024 13:41

@inlawproblems with kindness you are being myopic and the more you write, the more belligerent / entrenched you are coming across. Please think bigger picture.

SIL / BIL have treated you and DH poorly - EVERYONE AGREES WITH YOU.

SIL/BIL are immature and have caused this rift - YES EVERYONE AGREES WITH YOU

SIL/BIL are extremely unlikely to acknowledge / admit their own poor behavior. I refer you to the point above.

For some reason, you feel you need to win (get an apology) from people who simply aren't cognizant of their poor behaviour.

PIL are trying to bring their family closer together, maybe have 1 photo of all their GC together and believe me photos matter a lot to GPs.

If you can't do it for yourself, go for your PIL. You don't need to be there all day.

OP - why do you want to perpetuate this rift?

I say this from a family who was estranged from an Aunty / cousins. We have always said we would like to talk and the door was always open. My aunt died last year. She never reconciled with us because she always thought she was 'right' and needed to 'win.' She never met my DH nor DC. The self imposed estrangement went on for over 25 years. We reconciled with 1 of my cousins last year, after she died and it was lovely. So many family occasions missed because of a bitter entrenched woman couldn't see the bigger picture.

OP and DH - please don't be the blocker for a family get together. Be kind to PILs who are just trying their best, they are trying to mediate.

NonPlayerCharacter · 08/07/2024 13:42

inlawproblems · 08/07/2024 13:39

The kids aren't stupid though, even if we see each other from time to time. At some point they're going to want to know why we don't see each other more often, why we're never invited to their house and why they never come to ours when we live so close. How do I tell my little girl that before she was born we all got on fine but they don't want a relationship with us anymore because of her name?

No, the kids aren't stupid and that's the point.

You won't only have to tell her it's the name, you'll also have to tell her what you've told us: that you refused to see that side of the family until you got an apology over the name.

Or do you plan not to tell her that last bit? Because if not, I'm wondering what you're not telling us. If you think it's so very reasonable, why do you think she won't see it that way?

housethatbuiltme · 08/07/2024 13:42

inlawproblems · 08/07/2024 13:41

We're not trying to ban them from cutting us off! We're asking everyone to accept the fact that we also have the right to cut them off. That we are allowed to protect ourselves and our children from being further hurt by them, even if it means PIL don't get their family photo.

That is not cutting them off thats using your kids as a weapon though. Its different.

WednesdayWeWearPink · 08/07/2024 13:43

inlawproblems · 08/07/2024 13:28

You do realise that you are talking about someone who is so very offended that we used her daughter's middle name that she has caused an irreparable rift in her husband's family, yeah?

You have played a part in the so called rift OP. Their daughter was unwell in hospital and you made a deliberate decision to offer no support at all, and that was before you knew anything - just that they hadn’t been in touch for 3 months. They may have started it, but you made sure it escalated.

ARoseByAnyOtherNameWouldSmellAsSweet · 08/07/2024 13:43

I've NC for this as your story sounds very similar to mine, and I don't want my other profile to be found as a result of what I'm willing to share.

15 yrs ago, XH and I had our first DC. The birth was traumatic (EMCS) and our baby v poorly (he's a fine strapping young lad now - rest assured) to the point where we were asked to name him. The only name we managed to agree upon was (and this isn't exactly it but you'll get the gist): William. So that's what we named him. He pulled through, thankfully, albeit there was a lot of time spent in hospital and there still is. I'm sitting in hospital with him right now hence why I felt compelled to write. I spent his first two weeks living in special care, came out for 3 days and we were re-admitted almost immediately. It was all very complex and complicated, and I wasn't prepared for any of it. XH was useless.

3 months later things had improved but slowly, and we went to a family party. Saw XSIL there - hadn't really heard from her despite the issues we had faced. At the party, she exclaimed we had "stolen" her name, and didn't speak to me for - well, to date. Her son who was 8 when ours was born (they live about 200 miles away) is called Billy. I was on the scene after he was born. He was christened William. Did I know this? Yes. Did I seriously think it would have caused such a schism? No. Would we have used William if we had telephoned her to ask to use the name, and she had said no? Under the circumstances of his birth and subsequent issues, it was the last thing on my mind at that moment.

XMIL refused to get involved apart from to say "you need your heads banging together." XSIL had a meeting with XH when DC was about a year old, and subsequently it came out that he "became so aggressive" she got very scared (I didn't see this side of him until the latter stages of our marriage in 2016).

All I can add to the conversation on this thread, is that PILs will want to maintain a relationship with all their children and indeed their grandchildren, because that's what matters to them - they don't want to have to take sides, or become heavily involved in such disputes as it will risk their own interaction with their children's children. If your PILs decided to support you, they risk having their weekly childcare provision removed, and that's not ok for them to have to do.

We didn't push it, we carried on going to the family events but we showed our faces and then left promptly. It was horrific, and hugely awkward at times, but we were civil and tried to make it as easy as possible for my XMIL. We were all invited on a week long family holiday together by XMIL when DC was 2, and it was so awkward, we left the following day.

I don't know what the relationship is like today, between XSIL and XH; but my DC tell me they rarely see their Aunt / Cousins on that side. William doesn't know this was ever an issue, which is the main thing: I've protected him from that at least.

I know it's hard and I understand why you feel so bereft - but clearly, some people have very strong views about ownership of a name. The irony is practically every male child in our family has the same name as my dad, his dad, and his dad before him - and the wonderful thing is, nobody bats an eyelid. It's a family name and all the children grandchildren and great grandchildren each have their own nicknames, I'm even married now to someone of the same name. You can imagine the number of heads which turn when the name is called out at a family gathering 🤣. It's the tradition of our family: it is not the tradition of XHs, and I have had to come to terms with that.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do - try to take a few steps back though, this isn't really your responsibility to fix.... you can't change the behaviour of others, you can only change your reaction and your response to their behaviour. Flowers

RosieChardonnay · 08/07/2024 13:44

inlawproblems · 08/07/2024 13:35

No, I don't think so.

He has a temper on him but it is rarely seen in public. When we have rows (which is not that often but it can happen given that we've got a lot going on and neither of us is getting much sleep) he does tend to overreact. But I've never seen him be anything other than calm at a family event and I don't think he's ever been in the same room as her without me there.

She might get that vibe and just want to keep herself and her kids away from him. But I don't know any of you so thats just speculation.

It might just be that she is crazy and batshit. If that's the case then don't stoop to her level. Rise above it. Ignore her. Don't let her possibly going to a party prevent you from going. Don't say 'I can't be in the same room as her until she apologies'. Thats not boundary setting. That's her winning. She's controlling your behaviour.
Set your boundaries by saying when you will be at the party, when you will leave. If she is there don't let her see its bothering you.

VoteHappy · 08/07/2024 13:44

UsernameAlreadyTaken101 · 08/07/2024 12:36

I haven't read the whole thread as there are just too many to get through but this immediately made me think of a friend. Is there any chance that the name was special to them because they have previously lost a child with this name (or planned to use this name for). Just a thought as I know of someone who lost their first child and gave the name as a middle name to their second.
They might never have revealed this but it could explain the reaction.

Edited

This exactly what I have been wondering...

inlawproblems · 08/07/2024 13:44

NonPlayerCharacter · 08/07/2024 13:42

No, the kids aren't stupid and that's the point.

You won't only have to tell her it's the name, you'll also have to tell her what you've told us: that you refused to see that side of the family until you got an apology over the name.

Or do you plan not to tell her that last bit? Because if not, I'm wondering what you're not telling us. If you think it's so very reasonable, why do you think she won't see it that way?

If I were happy with my daughter knowing that it had anything to do with her name at all, which I'm not, I'd be quite happy to explain that we distanced ourselves to protect our family from their vile behaviour. That she (DD) is the most precious thing in the world to us and we considered their treatment of her completely unacceptable.

OP posts:
sandyhappypeople · 08/07/2024 13:44

you don't get to tell SIL how to feel!!!

You admit you had hardly any relationship with her for years before your baby was due, which is when you decided to show an interest in her suddenly.. which she didn't reciprocate.. you then chose to give your child a name that was obviously important to her, you said you had on your list about 6 names that you couldn't use because they were all her relations or kids first names ffs .. did you have any names on your list that weren't related to her in some way??

Your BIL has congratulated you on behalf of his family, and has been to see you and the baby and had no problems meeting up since or being in contact.. that should be enough without SIL personally sending a message herself.. are you really saying that SIL and BIL should both send you a message or it 'doesn't count'..

You don't get to tell her how to feel about you.. she obviously doesn't like you (can't imagine why!!) and doesn't want to congratulate you or see you.. you've chosen to weaponise that and has now caused a rift now between BIL and your DH.

What you should do is put your entitled opinions to one side, stop playing the victim, and be civil for the sake of your husband, your BIL and your PIL relationships.

You had a chance to put things right when her child was hospitalised and offer your support for the child that was unwell.. you could have even included an apology for upsetting her over the name choice but you couldn't get over yourself for 2 minutes to do it.

Get over yourself.

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