It's an in law one...

[inlawproblems]

First of all, I must start by saying that I love my PIL... 99% of the time.

DH has two brothers. One of them lives in the same town as us with his wife and children, and the other lives five hours away with his wife and child. We get on well with the one who lives five hours away but we haven't seen them for over a year due to the distance. They will be visiting next weekend and we are looking forward to seeing them.

Things aren't so great with my other BIL and his wife. His wife hasn't spoken to us for 18 months since our daughter was born, for a really stupid reason. He is backing his wife up but we don't think he really believes they are in the right. Before my daughter's birth we all got on well.

Literally everyone thinks they are being completely ridiculous and the thing they are upset about is utterly trivial. To avoid drip feeding, they are upset that we named our daughter a very common top 10 name which also happens to be their daughter's second middle name.

Anyway. We have invited the visiting BIL and his wife and child for Sunday lunch next weekend. We were also planning on inviting PIL.

When I mentioned this to FIL two weeks ago he said he was rather hoping that we would do something all together. I said that until BIL and SIL acknowledge how hurtful their behaviour has been and apologise to us, we don't want to have a relationship with them. FIL said they will never explain or apologise, and so I said in that case we won't be seeing them. He wants us to just let it go and play happy families. I made it very clear that doesn't work for us.

Today PIL came round for lunch and everything was normal, nobody mentioned next weekend. And then an hour or so after they'd gone home, MIL put a message on the family WhatsApp group saying they want us all to come round for cake next Saturday afternoon and Grandma will be there too.

We have not replied yet. We don't want to go. We feel that we are being strongarmed into seeing them and pretending everything is normal, when what we want is to have a discussion. (They have refused multiple requests from us to meet and talk.) PIL are banking on the fact that if we go next weekend we won't want to cause a scene in front of Grandma, or be unpleasant to SIL who is two months postpartum. (I wouldn't piss on her if she were on fire at this point but I recognise that the optics of having a go at a woman who's just had a baby in front of the entire family aren't great.) They're right about us not wanting to make a scene in those circumstances. That's why we don't want to go.

AIBU?

Thanks for reading if you made it to the end of this!

They know that in order for us to be comfortable with being in the same room we need our feelings to be acknowledged.

There's actually nothing to stop them from inviting us and BIL/SIL round at the same time and saying, OK, you're all here now, sit down and discuss this like adults and then when everyone has a chance to say how they feel we can all agree to move on.

But they've now left it too late to do that before Saturday.

We want to understand what the actual problem is from their point of view, and try to find a way to put this to bed. I'm pretty sure the reason they are refusing to acknowledge us is that they - or at least BIL - know full well that there is no actual problem and they have just been complete dicks for no reason.

You know what the reason is. Just because you dismiss her feelings, does not mean she doesn't have the right to have them. The more you post, the more obvious it is that this rift will never be healed.

Don;t be daft @inlawproblems just hed up, tits out and smile, you have done nothing wrong and if SIL/BIL want to play games, LET them.

You are never going to get what you think you are owed from these people, LET them look idiotic, let others allow them to be idiotic, just get on with your own lives, attend what you want to attend and stop hinging everything on whether they will or will not be there - it does not matter

make it uncomfortable for them to go if that makes it better for you, be in all the parties and smile your biggest smiles, be the best versions of yourselves and let them fester

I say this as someone who has no relationship with any of my family for a variety of (way bigger) reasons than this spat of yours. Grow up and get over yourselves. By doing this, you will make SIL/BIL lose, if that is important to you.

So you're basically acknowledging that nothing would make you happy at this point...

Anyway, like others I’m a bit worn out, you don’t want to hear anything that doesn’t fit your narrative (🙄).
bottom line, your SIL and BIL behaved like dicks but you and your DH are just as horrible.

ESH. Except poor PILs and children caught between this.

An apology would make us happy.

Even if it only comes from BIL.

@inlawproblems you are never going to get the 'truth' you so desperately need - THEY don't even know what the fuck they are kicking off about anymore, and even if they came hands and knees to your door to beg your forgiveness, let me tell you, it will not erase the hurt, so get on with life and turn the page yourself

Seize control of this by RISING above it. -

That does sound weird on their part. Did they invite you to the party? It would be nice for the children to maintain a relationship and if the grandparents can facilitate this then it would be good to take the opportunity.

I do think you have grounds to be upset here and it does seem they are going out of their way to avoid you. I am sure this is very upsetting.

My advice would be to go to the party but say in the whatsapp you can only stay for an hour and specify the time you are leaving. This will give them the opportunity to come when you are there or they can come afterwards when they know you will be gone. Everyone will get a chance to see each other.
If they do come when you are there be polite.

I would stop asking them to meet and discuss things. They have made it clear they don't want to do that. Leave that in their hands now, you have tried.

This should have been in the original post. When I read the op I thought you were potentially both being petty but after reading more of your updates it's become more clear why you are so hurt and deserve an apology.

I think I'd offer to get a babysitter and go but state that you want to protect your daughter from her aunt and uncle because they essentially shunned her as a baby and you can't trust them to be nice to your daughter since they haven't apologised, and you want to protect her. It is utterly batshit not to meet a baby because of her name, as if it's the babies fault.

@inlawproblems how have they expected you to be thrilled about their new baby? They don't even speak to you, how have you interpreted that?

But they are trying to facilitate it aren't they? They're trying to get you all together and your response to this is that they're trashing your boundaries. How can the PIL do more to facilitate things when you don't agree with their attempts? What are you expecting PIL to actually do? Call out the BIL/SIL on their behaviour and tell them to apologise to you? Likely this'll cause SIL to go nuclear and all kinds of hell will be unleashed on the PIL.

You are never going to get one. The best you can hope for is to move on and leave it in the past

YOU know you have not done anything wrong and the whole family knows you have not done anything wrong, but carrying on this petty spat is not on. see my above post.

YOU can forgive THEM, doesn't mean you are granting them permission to do x, y or z in the future, but you get to 'win'

If you want to REALLY stick it to SIL in a monumental fashion of PassAgg, then be magnanimous and get on the Whatsapp and say 'we'd love to be there. I am so chronically aware that this situation with SIL/BIL is still not resolved, but it's a silly thing that has dragged on for far too long, and there is more to life than all this resentment. So, if it helps us all move forward as a family, We forgive you both BIL/SIL, we'll be at the party on such and such a date, hope to see you, but lets move on now"

THEN they look the fools if they don't accept it, you look magnificent and they are on the outside/back foot.

Play smarter

Yes there is something that stops them.

the fact you are all adults, not 5 years old, so it is inappropriate for parents to get in the middle of your conflict and interfere that much.

plus MAYBE if you went to that party and were polite that’s exactly what would have happened.

or maybe not, because they don’t have control over BIL and SIL, they are separate adult individuals.

you can’t be pissed off at PIL for not blackmailing their son with childcare, to bring him to the discussion table. You are the one who is now spreading this conflict to PILs and expecting them to take your side. What if they took BIL/SIL side ??

Do as I suggest and you put the burden 100% back on BIL/SIL, then all you have to do is smile and wave. Trust me - its a genius solution to this silly problem

Ah, sorry I didn't make that clear.

It's always difficult to know how much detail to include in the OP with these sorts of posts because if the OP is too long then people don't read it and if you add more to the story later people accuse you of drip feeding. Can't win really.

But yeah. To be clear. She has not seen or spoken to us in 18 months or even so much as "liked" us saying congratulations when her new baby was born. In the first 6 months of DDs life we saw BIL sporadically but less than usual and we thought he was being a bit weird. But he never said that anything was wrong, every time we invited them to do something he said they had plans with SIL's family, he just fobbed us off with excuses. We gave them some space (after sending our best wishes) when their daughter was ill. That's why it took 6 months for it to become undeniable that something was up, which is when my husband asked BIL directly what the problem was. They were on public transport at the time (they both take the same route home from work and DH saw his brother one day and took the opportunity to say something) and I think my DH reacted in anger and they were shouting at each other in public. I waited a few weeks for things to cool down and then started trying to contact BIL myself to try and smooth things over, but that was in September and we've just been completely stonewalled since then.

OP doesn’t want solutions. All
she wants is a grovelling apology. Nothing else will suffice (and Im sure even that won’t be enough)

If you really want to 'win', OP, put something passive-aggressive in the group chat like "we're so delighted to be invited as we know BIL and SIL have had real trouble putting their feelings about our daughter's name behind them. It's so great to see they're willing to come along, meet [STOLEN NAME] properly, apologise and move forward. That's what we've been trying to do, so it's great they're now on board. Can't wait to see you all xxxxxx"

Then wait and see if either PIL or BIL/SIL will acknowledge that that absolutely wasn't the plan. If they say 'yes, great', then you can go and you'll get your apology.

They wouldn't take BIL/SIL's side because they're not crazy people.

But they are the only ones who want this reunion to take place and I think they need to take some responsibility at some point rather than putting it all on us.

Is it emotional blackmail or is it just two elders wanting to have their family around them?

I don't know I think you should go out of respect for the elder members of your fmaily, they won't be around forever. And for the next generation also.

Your husband reacted badly here.
It sounds like you are all as bad as each other really.
Hard to see this being resolved unfortunately.

Hah! They'd hate that.

They can’t take responsibility - PILs have done nothing wrong!

by the way, I read your update.
shouting in public (on public transport) between two brothers - WOW. Just wow. It’s extremely unusual. That’s probably why they want nothing to do with
your family, rather than just name issue, and why they never responded to your letter.

I bet your DH said some unforgivable stuff there, something along the lines how horrible SIL is, or that BIL was a fool to marry her, etc, since it’s clear what you both think, or maybe even something about them having children and your infertility struggles, or maybe something completely different from their long standing issues stemming from childhood, who knows. He probably would never even admit to
you what he actually may have said.

I don't know what DH said. I wasn't there. I understand why he was angry to learn that the reason they had frozen us out since the birth of our daughter was not an understandable reason after all but something completely trivial.

But I haven't behaved in that way at all. I tried so hard to be conciliatory. And not only did it not work, BIL is maintaining that it is my fault.

Yes, shouting on public transport is low

'we need our feelings to be acknowledged'

to quote Stephen Fry:

'It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what.'

You feel offended by everything your SIL does... thats YOUR problem.

They don't owe you anything. Your feelings are your own issue to deal with and no one else is responsible for how you feel or react. You're suppose to learn this as you grow up, my toddler is currently learning this but you have got to adulthood still blaming everyone else for something only your have any control of.

Just stop being offended by everything she does, its that simple.