It's an in law one...

[inlawproblems]

First of all, I must start by saying that I love my PIL... 99% of the time.

DH has two brothers. One of them lives in the same town as us with his wife and children, and the other lives five hours away with his wife and child. We get on well with the one who lives five hours away but we haven't seen them for over a year due to the distance. They will be visiting next weekend and we are looking forward to seeing them.

Things aren't so great with my other BIL and his wife. His wife hasn't spoken to us for 18 months since our daughter was born, for a really stupid reason. He is backing his wife up but we don't think he really believes they are in the right. Before my daughter's birth we all got on well.

Literally everyone thinks they are being completely ridiculous and the thing they are upset about is utterly trivial. To avoid drip feeding, they are upset that we named our daughter a very common top 10 name which also happens to be their daughter's second middle name.

Anyway. We have invited the visiting BIL and his wife and child for Sunday lunch next weekend. We were also planning on inviting PIL.

When I mentioned this to FIL two weeks ago he said he was rather hoping that we would do something all together. I said that until BIL and SIL acknowledge how hurtful their behaviour has been and apologise to us, we don't want to have a relationship with them. FIL said they will never explain or apologise, and so I said in that case we won't be seeing them. He wants us to just let it go and play happy families. I made it very clear that doesn't work for us.

Today PIL came round for lunch and everything was normal, nobody mentioned next weekend. And then an hour or so after they'd gone home, MIL put a message on the family WhatsApp group saying they want us all to come round for cake next Saturday afternoon and Grandma will be there too.

We have not replied yet. We don't want to go. We feel that we are being strongarmed into seeing them and pretending everything is normal, when what we want is to have a discussion. (They have refused multiple requests from us to meet and talk.) PIL are banking on the fact that if we go next weekend we won't want to cause a scene in front of Grandma, or be unpleasant to SIL who is two months postpartum. (I wouldn't piss on her if she were on fire at this point but I recognise that the optics of having a go at a woman who's just had a baby in front of the entire family aren't great.) They're right about us not wanting to make a scene in those circumstances. That's why we don't want to go.

AIBU?

Thanks for reading if you made it to the end of this!

I think it's what @BarshMarton said above.

If SIL gets her way over this her behaviour will only escalate and we'll be dealing with one thing after another for the next 50 years if they stay married that long. That's why we want to put in place some boundaries now and stick to them.

he came up to us and started demanding to know why we'd stolen his little sister's middle name.

If he says anything like that again simply tell him that it's a big lie that you stole anything, no-one owns a name.

As far as I can see you are only upsetting yourselves and your parents in law.

Life is too short and you are all behaving like 5 year olds.

I have a nutcase of a sister in law, and we have not seen either her or my brother for the past several years after a fall out, but we did meet up this year at a family do. While we didn't spend much in the way of time together, we managed to be civil. To be honest I am now relieved as I was very concerned about how it would be when our parents die, but because we have managed the situation at this event, I can relax a bit.

I wish I had. Especially since he shares his first name with another family member (yes, they're absolute hypocrites), and doubtless with half his class at school given that it's a very common saint's name and he is in a Catholic prep school.

Honestly, I totally understand and sympathise. I've had difficult issues with thoughtless relatives but my point is for the sake of the wider family you have to ignore. If they were going to apologise they would have, they are clearly stupid unpleasant people so just focus on the pils, granny, the other bil and leave those 2 to it.

You don't have to see them any other time other than the odd extended family get together and just kill them with kindness at those events. They will hate it, trouble causers loves to get a reaction so don't give them one.

Clearly it matters to a lot of people so the polite thing to do is check first. Especially in a small family like this with children so close in age.
Personally it wouldn't bother me but I would mention it before announcing the name if I was in this situation. Its just polite.

I agree boundaries need to be implemented and maintained or SIL will think she can do what she wants. Your FIL and MIL may want a quiet life, which is lovely for them but unreasonable if they aren’t the target of her

Not acknowledging the birth of your child is odd. I assume it’s not crazy jealousy about the sex of your child, unless the name was a unisex one. Maybe she’s annoyed you had the cheek to have a child 9 months after her 🤣. Anything is possible if she thinks you “stole” a name!

Honestly I'm starting to suspect that it's an abusive relationship and she is deliberately trying to isolate BIL from his loved ones. It'll be someone else next. Probably the family friend who is trying to act as a mediator.

Personally I would have said “I’m really sorry that using the name has upset you. It was really never my intent to hurt your feelings, so I’m sorry about that, but we just absolutely love the name”.
If that didn’t at least ease the smarting for her I’d just have continued to be civil. That’s all that’s required. Civility. Demanding an apology is petty. You hurt her feelings whether you intended to or not, and her feelings are valid whether or not you’d have felt the same way in the situation.

Your relationship with your in-laws seems really close Op, and it’s lovely that you have your children after such a difficult time.
Dont let your Sil and bil have any impact on this, don’t wait for explanations or apologies. They might surprise you and behave graciously.
Your parents in law are just trying to negotiate their way round a problem, in the best way they can.
Also, sorry about the Bluebird and cake joke, it was an early in the morning sort of post, all the best.

They sound like they've been twats, but you can't make someone act in a certain way.

If you act like the bigger people, other people will notice.

They've been twats, but that's just family life. Honestly, sometimes just getting together, pretending nothing has happened and moving on is the only way to get over arguments like that. If you go, act like the bigger people, act all lovely, and BIL and SIL are rude to you, then it will be quite clear that they are still in the wrong.

You going on Saturday isn't her "winning".

You said BIL seems like he doesn't entirely agree with SIL... well then go so that your DH can begin the process of repairing his relationship with his brother. or at the very least, just go to make your PIL happy.

Sometimes the bridges start being repaired before the apology comes... who knows, maybe if your DH starts talking to his brother again, he'll get an apology from his brother in a few months time.

I'm sorry, but they were being very unreasonable at first, but I think you would be unreasonable to refuse this invitation.

Grow up, move on and go, just say Hello, and be civil and when its all over for the afternoon you can go back to ignoring one another. Its really very easy

How will it escalate if you continue being no contact with them outside of family events??

you are not being asked to resume contact with SIL/PIL. You are asked to just go to family events and act POLITE there, ie just mostly ignore them after polite hello and not bring up a conflict/not make sarcastic comments on the side etc. That’s what acting civil is. Not being super friendly like nothing happened, but just not letting the conflict to play out there and then. Nobody is asking you to be friends with SIL/BIL at all or even interact with them.

Sorry I have to ask, are you from Eastern Europe? Because I am, and Im getting same vibe from you. I assume you are in the UK, as most people are here: British people are very different, they are conflict averse and just not like to talk straight through a problem, insistence on this is actually rude to them. Plus being civil is extremely important to them, whereas in Eastern Europe people feel it is disingenuous and almost like lying if you are not showing someone you don’t actually like them. So maybe that’s why it is so hard for you?

Well in general that may be a simple polite thing to do, don't disagree with you there.

But did you read op's posts about how they did choose the name, and also the context of the birth of her DD? Would you still say this to op, in this specific case?

Well then that's even more reason to go on Saturday! Go for your BIL's sake. Let DH start to thaw his relationship with his brother, keep the lines open... maybe you'll get an apology in years to come... maybe it'll never be a verbal one, but you'll know he feels sorry due to how he appreciates the relationship with your DH... That's how a lot of family relationships work in real life. Just go and go and be civil for a few hours and look like the bigger people.

We did say that. There was no reply.

Agree

Op
The thing is currently SIL is the disruptor, she's enjoying it and it gives her power.
Imagine a boat at sea, she's rocking it
Step off her boat, stop playing into her hands
She WANTS this family disruption,it's like oxygen to a Narc.
Step off,go on Saturday, be polite and fairly grey rock.

Stop chasing an apology that will never come
If it wasn't this issue she will find something else.
Give her nothing, expect nothing

This advice is spot on. Ignore this ridiculous non-issue, whether or not BIL & SIL continue to be silly about it & remember to focus on the wood rather than the trees: the most important thing here is to maintain good family relationships for most people (including your children & their cousins, your husband and his brothers, and your PILs). If you think that In 15 years’ time, your PILs will be getting old, your children will be entering adulthood etc - what kind of relationships & memories do you want them to build, eg with their cousins - even if their mum is currently being a bit weird over the name thing? In time this issue is likely to feel pretty minor but having close links to their wider family may be very important to your kids & husband. There is always some batshit crazy behaviour in families over stupid stuff that needs to be skirted round for the greater good (ie so that everyone else can still have strong ties). IMO your SIL’s behaviour is not damaging enough to anyone that you need to sever these relationships. It sounds as though SIL has been going through some hard/emotional things (child having surgery?, pregnant & having baby) - and so have you. You had to be very brave dealing with infertility & you’re also both in the thick of it with having young children. Personally I would try to remove my judgement, be kind & as Gazelda & other wise PPs have suggested, be the better person. It’s SIL’s problem not yours; don’t fan the flames of this & make it your problem by your reaction to it.

No, I'm from the UK. I'm the only person in this situation who is British.

Nice sweeping generalisation about people from eastern Europe there though.

😬

I am allowed. That’s my culture. But ok, you are still unreasonable in not willing to be simply civil at a family gathering and saying that “nothing being said is precisely the problem”.

because it shows that you want an all out confrontation with them no matter what (because you are definitely not getting an apology) more than anything else

By this account I'm also far more like an Eastern European than I am a British person. My family believed in direct communication like adults and for this reason resentments between us didn't fester and any conflict or misunderstandings could be quickly resolved. Direct communication need not mean 'aggression'; these discussions can be calmly and productively had. Imagine being willing to end up irrevocably NC with an in-law than make even the smallest effort to talk and through that means perhaps heal the situation?

I suspect that's why some of my in-laws don't like me 😆

There has to be something here that you are not telling us OP.
You seem to have very extreme feelings towards your SIL. You said you were never close and were civil at family events.
She did not message to say congratulations on the birth of your baby and has not met up with you since. But you were never close and only met up once outside of family events. She sounds like she just wants to continue the relationship as it has always been, seeing each other at family events and being civil.
It seems you have blown this totally out of proportion and your pil and kids are the victims here.

The vast majority of people here have given you good advice. Move on, forget about it, stop looking for an apology, be civil.

But you are not listening. All your posts mentioning your sil are filled with rage. You cannot seem to get over this.

If your SIL is as bad as you say this will become clear in the fullness of time and everyone will see it. Its not your place.

The language you are using here when talking about your sil and your stubbornness in demanding an apology is not showing you in a good light unfortunately.

If that's true, then you need to keep the lines of communication open.

OP all you can do is control your own behaviour and how you react to SIL, BIL and FIL. They all have their own reasons for what they are doing. Decide what you and DH want out of this and act accordingly. Lots of people do things we find unacceptable or crazy. I hope you manage to find a way forward that you’re comfortable with and enjoy meeting up with the other BIL& SIL

We want to understand what the actual problem is from their point of view, and try to find a way to put this to bed. I'm pretty sure the reason they are refusing to acknowledge us is that they - or at least BIL - know full well that there is no actual problem and they have just been complete dicks for no reason.

It's not in the least bit civil to refuse to even congratulate your SIL after she's had a baby, especially when she went to a lot of effort for you when you had yours. I guess our POV is that if they can't be civil towards us then we want to remove ourselves from the situation.