to hate my dh 's job and the effect it has on our family life

[floaty]

This probably isn't the right place to post but I just need to let off steam.Dh works very long hours and I am fed up of evening after evening on my own,I know lots of people have it worse but sometimes I just think it would be nice to have an evening at home or be able to have people over at the weekend but I never know if he is going to be able to be there.The last time we went out for supper (to very close friends)he spent most of the evening in the hall on his blackberry trying to close deal.I know he hates this too so I feel that I can't moan to him, clients just expect this level of service from him ,they want everything yesterday but I HATE what it is doing to him,our family and our relationship,he is so tired all the time and seems unable to switch off truly,even when on the face of it on holiday he is still fretting at the back of his mind about work.

The irony is that he moved jobs 5 years ago to be closer to home and improve his work life balalnce etc but its as bad as ever now and he is just about to head up new office in a city 40 miles ago where he was originally working and where we were supposed to be escaping from the commute to so we are back to square one.I had increased my hours but have just handed in notice,thankfully they have offered me an alternative for only 21 hours a week which is great as I love working there but the hours were impossible with him not around.

I know he loves us but is it so unreasonable just to want a weekend when he doesn't go to work or to feel that work could occiasionally fit around us and not the other way around.Sometimes I feel so lonely being on my own every evening with the children and if I have to cook one more meal at 10pm I will scream (if I don't he just gets takeaways which were making him really feel ill)Sometimes I wonder if we will ever see our old age together he seems to be aging in front of me and I love him so much and can't bear the thought of something happening to him ,but he juat says thats life.

Sorry for the rant but just needed to get it out.

PS he has just rung to say he probably won't be home tonight that hes got to work all weekend and will be flying to Singapore next week for a week....Oh joy

People seem to expect services 24 hours 7 days a week, my DH works shifts, has to work xmas day often for no extra pay, because people want to fly out on holiday on xmas day FFS.

I just don't get why people allow themselves to be used by employers in this way. They seem to tell themselves if they give it all now they will be able to live an easy life in the future - but I rarely see people being able to do this as they have become trapped by their material expectations. To me it all seems about some sort of misguided 'hope' for the future and deferred pleasure. So many people start their sentences with " when we've sorted out our finances ", "when we've paid off the mortgage", "when I become manager", "when I become partner " , " Once the kids have left home "...

It is such a false economy . This hit home a couple of weeks ago when a friend died age 35 of throat cancer.

We just can't save up all of our hopes for the future ... we have to live some of them now .

A good friend of mine is married to a partner at a large london firm. She gave up her own legal career for motherhood and playing the role of the corporate wife. She has a fab lifestyle, children in private school and nursery, a house keeper and cleaner, babysitters in her little black book. She must be able to drop everything she is doing at moments notice and show up in a coctail dress, perfect hair, and do small talk when her dh has to entertain clients. Or, he will call her and say, I invited some clients for dinner tonight, and she has to race to waitrose and dish up a perfect menu to compete with even the best restaurants, she even does home made ice cream.... He takes her to weekends away (children with sitters) to shop for her spring wardrobe in Paris, Milan, Rome, whereever she wants, brings her on conferences and business trips where she chats with the other wives.

He gets up at 6 am, doesnt get home till around 11pm, often takes clients out on saturdays, etc.

Would she change this for a simpler life? Of course not. She rather he keeps his high powered job, as it keeps her in her Gucci.

It is all about choices. You take the money, and they luxuries it bring. Or you dont.

Yes well I can see if designer labels are that important to you that she is in a good setup

Personally I couldn't give a stuff about them

So the sums are - if your husband gives up work and minds the child and therefore doesn't have to pay his first children anyway you save £600 a month plus whatever you will pay for child care. Is that more than you would earn working full time plus your husband paying £600 to his first children?

Xenia, was your last post intended for this thread?

I wouldn't know a designer label if it hit me over the head, I go to maybe one event a year with DHs work, I have no interest in wealth for its own sake. This trap we have got into is not my choice. DH was a student when I met him and not a very good one at that. I had to bail him out financially a few times! I'm astounded at the success he's had. Golden handcuffs is a good description - it's hard for them to walk away from a high paid, high-powered job for the more nebulous pleasure of a family life and more relaxation.

Anybody who earns more and more would know that this means they can afford more and more. Bigger car, private schools, bigger home and bigger mortgage, larger bills, nicer neighbourhood, etc. Many people aspire for these things, maybe not so much for what they are but for how they are perceived and who they are perceived to be.

The conflict is one of values. We worked so hard to get all these things, we wanted it so badly and really we need them. No you dont. You dont need to run two Audi's, you dont need this big a house, and you dont need private school. And if you do, then you have to keep your husband in his golden handcuffs, and make sure you are supportive rather than miserable. It is simple really.

as I said
status symbols

That's true, Quintessential, but the issue which Floaty has raised and which many of us agree with is that we could not give a stuff about status symbols, we just want a normal family life. We live in an apartment and don't
have a car. We don't have any paid help. The last time I went abroad was 3 years ago. I'm NOT bemoaning this - it's my choice to live as frugally as I can, in the idle hope that it might mean he can do a less demanding job sooner rather than later. Couples get lumped together as though his dreams are the same as hers - it's often not the case.

I so agree Janni - every time we are deciding whether to make a major purchase I weigh it up against the extra weeks/months dh will have to stay in his job. Sometimes it's worth it - we have a personal trainer twice a week and I reckon keeping her for the next 7 years will add 3 montsh onto dh's retirment age, but it keeps us healthy until then. And I try very hard to live within dh's monthly salary, which isn't (relatively) huge - I can grocery shop at Waitrose and take the kids for days out whenever I like, but I think carefully about whether clothes are worth it and don't spend willy-nilly. (well not most of the time). That way annual bonuses can be put towards paying off the mortgage/ building up savings. But it is important for a couple to listen to each others needs, and ultimately if the non working all teh hours god sends partner doesn't want to continue with the life that comes with the man (cos it usually is teh man) tehy have to make the decision to leave if he won't change

My dh is a lawyer too. He works in-house for a major global company where he is head of legal. His office is based in Norfolk but he is spearheading a major contract at the moment and spends half his time in London or India.

When he is at home, most of his time is spent on his laptop or blackberry. He does come home around 7 to see the children before bed and then goes back to work again.

There has been occasions where he simply has not come home at all.

Lots of my friends don't understand the working hours of a lawyer at all, and because he goes back to work at night, I have even been asked if he is having an affair!

To the OP:
What advantages does his job bring to you and the family? In terms of material comfort, you not having to work etc. (Sorry, I don't know if you do, but I'm assuming not from the OP.)

And to what extent would you be prepared to give any of this up?

I think we also need to realise that some of us, male and female, are actually making a choice to work these hours and do the work we do. If the non working spouse or the other working spouse is content that is fine. If not then you either have to change it or put up with it. It is hard for some people to understand that I might literally mean I don't mind if I'm woken in the night by a work thing, not that that often happens.

Often a couple start out with not much money, in love and then both or just one of them gets very into their work and they don't have the time for the other person. The other person might want 2 or 3 hours a night with their partner and sex every day. One answer is for both to be so busy and tied up with work you almost achieve a weekend only marriage but that's not what most people want.

Many a marriage has foundered over these things. I don't think it was an issue in ours as we both worked hard but it can be for a lot of people. It's the ability to change and accept change in long term relationships which is quite hard for a lot of people. The deal you entered into alters and you often don't have a lot of choice over that.

The woman in the Qu. example in my view in feminist terms I just can't understand how a woman could live with herself and be kept by a man like that. It's demeaning and immoral but obviously she can live with herself.

What is much much harder is if you work very long hours (as many people do) but earn an absolute pittance - like the taxi driver I was talking to the other day and his nurse wife who do split shifts so one is always around for the children.

(My post above was indeed for another thread)

It is actually a "luxury problem".

The taxi driver and the nurse example Xenia gives is poignant because these people have no choice but to work so long hours just to make enough money to live on. I bet they dont do it to keep their children in private school but to put food on the table and to pay the bills.

I have seen some friends of mine move on from a "normal" terraced house, to a villa, then to a villa with swimming pool, then to buy a second home in Dorset for the weekend, as the husband has been doing better and better. It seems many people strive to earn more and to buy more. In time, these luxuries will become necessities, and even they might have a hard time figuring out what has to give if circumstances change. Like one, shamefacedly admitted that she had not realized the gas and electricity bills would be so high in her new enormous house, so she could not afford to have her pool cleaned that summer. Shock horror. Now, I know most of us on this thread certainly are not in "that financial league", at least I am not! But I am not in the least bit jealous of what my friends have, as they dont seem to be much happier and stress free than I am. It is not enviable at all.

Divorce is one of those events and death of one spouse that has that effect. The Lloyds of London disaster was another. No one obviously has any sympathy for rich people in straightened circumstances.

But I think you just usually tend to live within your means. Some people take the Benny Hill solution (very rich but live in tiny one bed flat in squalor) but usually when people earn a bit more they buy a bigger house, pay school fees etc. and get used to the improvement, just as the taxi driver has probably got used not to being on benefits any more.

The taxi drive nurse split shifts thing is the worst because one has to sleep in the day and still do a school run at the start or end of the day.

I suppose the thread is really about how much time can we expect from a partner rightly in a marriage. When is it reasonable to insist divorce if you don't change jobs or lifestyle so that you're home at 6.30 every day and the blackberry and mobile stay off. It's the same if your other half is on the PC or gambling or out at the pub every night. There's a minimum level at which you think I might as well not have someone, might as well be single, might as well not have you to look after, wash clothes for, might as well be free to find someone who is actually wanting to devote some time to being with me.

..and when it's at rock bottom you get to what Ian Fleming said was the position when the Quantum of Solace in the marriage was zero and then you part. When there is nothing good left. When you get so little solace, comfort, pleasure from the marriage that you are better off not being with that person.

my dh is asleep, got home at 7, asleep at 9 lol

My DH gave up his hospital surgical career to be GP so that we could all have more time together.
In those days Gps earnt a lot less than consultants,but recently the gap has narrowed plus he does some surgery to cut waiting lists etc so keeps his hand in,so to speak! (poor choice of words there,he is a gynaecologist!)
Suppose what I am saying is could he diversify,but still within Law,if that makes sense?
Dh still works 8 until 7/8 four days a week and works from home doing reports,notes etc in the evening,but no weekends/overnights unless by choice....of course,that is a whole other thread!

Yes, same in our family. My brother changed jobs (he's a consultant but he leaves work when he's not away on business by 5 or 5.30 every day to be home with his toddlers) in the same way. Lots of men do. Indeed he had lots of consultant colleagues actually male who have been negotiating 4 day weeks even so they get time with their babies.

Overnights by choice are a fascinating topic. I have done them although not often. I think it's fine if the other half of the couple also gets some - like whole weekends away with her girl friends whilst the other half has the children (as indeed my brother did recently whilst his wife was away for two nights). But if you don't earn sometimes you lose power in a relationship which is another fascinating issue. I earned a lot more than my ex husband. Very high earning men, probably the less moral of them, do stray more, thin the money entitles them to do that when they have a housewife at a home etc something women need to think about if they give up the brief case for a pinny. Unless they're married to paragon or to a man who doesn't earn much either.

It's not demeaning and immoral to be kept by a man, Xenia. It may be demeaning and immoral to be contributing nothing to a relationship and taking everything, but the question of who earns the money is not the same.

Thank you elastic woman.
Xenia, I realy do find it offensive, and tbh, kind of stupid fo you that you can't understand that some of us can maintain equal and supportive relationships where only one partner actually earns money. I don't own a pinny, and my husband is still interested in me, respects me, and values the contribution I make, even though I am "only" a SAHM. I'm contributing far more to the family now (by enabling him to focus on his career and knowing every other aspect of his life is looked after) than I did when still working, even though I could easily have afforded to employ a nanny and housekeeper from the salary I earnt. And I don't really care if you can't comprehend that, because dh and I do. I just wish you wouldn't be quite so insulting to those of us who are able to maintain a supportive (but non earning) role in a relationship whilst remaining true to our feminist beliefs.

Prufrock, you've still got your DH, Xenia has an ex DH. What more needs to be said?

What's been missed is the fact that the earner in the partnership is NOT loving working so hard. I am in an upside-down relationship, financially, where I am the working one. And bloody hell, with the hours I work and the stress that I'm under, if I had ONE BIT of moaning from my husband about not contributing enough to the upbringing of our baby, or to our household, or whatever, I would just lose it. Of course I would rather be at home than working. Of course I would rather not respond to my blackberry or calls on my mobile. But it is WHAT I AM PAID FOR. And if, on top of that, I had grief about not being good enough at home - I would lose it.

Get out there and get your own bloody job and contribute and stop moaning. I am really really shocked at women with City husbands who seem to think their husbands are at work because they like it. I'm sorry if they are not home at 5.30, but that's what you signed up for. God.

Blimey Pillow - if you hate your job so much then maybe you should consider something different.

You make a sweeping generalisation there that none of our husbands are enjoying their jobs. Mine does enjoy his - he wouldn't be doing it otherwise.

And how exactly would me returning to work help? It would just mean that my dd had neither parent spending any time with her, instead of just one. Very twisted logic.