to feel worried about having children after reading posts on MN…?

[SaucySabotender]

I feel pretty nervous writing this to be honest…like it’s a taboo subject that shouldn’t be asked…but anyways here I go.

My husband and I would like to start a family, and due to fertility issues it would have to be via donors. This part I am fine with and have spent a lot of time talking with DCP and various issues surrounding it and feel in a good place regarding that.

However as I’ve spent more time reading posts on MN, mostly the trending topics, over and over again I read about mothers who are stressed, exhausted, at their wits ends, relationships strained or broken, children who are extremely difficult to handle with behaviours that anyone would struggle with…and I guess I am panicking. Right now my life is extremely calm, predictable, very low stress outside of normal everyday stresses. I want to have a family, but I’m worried that either I or my husband won’t be able to handle it if we end up in a situation like that, and I’ll wonder what the hell I’ve done…or is that a non-issue because once the child is in your life, motherly love takes over and you’d never think that way? But of course I can only speak for myself, and it seems like so many fathers end up checking out of their child’s life. I don’t feel like this is something my husband would do, but of course does anyone think that when they marry them and have children together?

I’m not sure if this is just cold feet because of the massive undertaking of IVF…the uncertainty of success, the huge cost which would have to come from remortgaging the house, and then once successful, worrying about having a healthy child…

And then I wonder, if I’m having worries like this, am I really fit to be a mother? I feel like I would do a good job raising a child, but should I even be having these kinds of thoughts?

I was originally childless not by choice. I’ve heard and read that as a parent you experience both the highest highs and the lowest lows. I’ve come to appreciate my calm and quiet life and my freedom (personal and financial). I may have missed out on the highest highs but can there be anything more heartbreaking to a parent than a selfish and ungrateful adult child?

That’s a strange ending to your post, @KimberleyClark — I thought you were going to say ‘is there anything more heart-breaking to a parent than a seriously ill or chronically unhappy child, or losing your child to illness or suicide?’

Selfishness is pretty subjective, and I didn’t have my child in order for him to be grateful to me. I hope he’ll leave home with the skills needed to explore the world and build a life he finds satisfying, whatever that looks like.

'And then I wonder, if I’m having worries like this, am I really fit to be a mother? '

That's how you know you ARE fit to be a mother! Because you care enough to actually think about it. Nothing in life is perfect and having children is hard work but I wouldn't change a thing, I don't think many people would.

I was a mum at 16, he’s 30 now and I have two others, 19 and 16. Yes it’s been stressful at times, but I can’t imagine doing my life without ever experiencing the love of having a child. It’s like nothing else and no-one denies it can be stressful at times, relationships end, but you’ll always have your kids. I don’t regret a minute with mine, but do feel glad I’m on the other side now and my life is becoming my own again

If you can rely on parents or in-laws to do childcare then that's a huge stressor instantly gone. If you and your husband are equals in your relationship (truly equals) and you're both willing to be flexible taking time off to look after an unwell baby / toddler / preschooler / primary age kid, then that's another big stressor gone.
If you are financially secure and one of you can afford to be a SAHP, then in some ways that makes things easier...but being a SAHP can cause serious issue with later employment, if there is a separation, or death. And it's not unusual for the expectation that the SAHP does everything child and household related 24/7, whilst the working parent gets down time, because their work if far more important than domestic/ parenting duties.
If there is any inequality in your relationship currently, having a child into the mix will open up that chasm.
Don't under estimate the damage broken nights sleep do to a relationship, the unrelating drudgery of being a parent to a young child, the full on supervision a young child needs, the constant interruptions, meaning endless half finished jobs and conversations, the resentment that can easily spiral, and the 'I'm more exhausted than you' dance.....
Don't have children if you're not on the same page with parenting styles, don't have children if there are any niggles in your relationship, don't have children if your other half isn't 100% on board, don't have children if the expectation is you'll be the default parent, and finally biologically speaking expect some significant changes to your undercarriage after having a baby....and don't expect anyone to care!
I love my dc, and made lots of sacrifices to be the very best parent I can be, but if I had come across mumsnet before having them, and known the truth of parenting (not my parents / in-laws / general societies version of it), had realised my husband was a bit of a twat, who did absolutely fuck all in terms of child rearing, picking up the domestic load, in the early years, then hand on heart I wouldn't have had them, my career has taken a significant bashing, and I certainly wouldn't encourage my children to have kids. I have no wish to be a hands on grandparent, as quite frankly I want to be just a bit selfish once again and have sometime to do the things I want to do, including getting my career back on track. Having grandchildren is not on that list (when this came up in conversation with dh he got really shirty and told me I was being ridiculous...I told him there was absolutely nothing to stop him being a hands on grand father, and he could easily do it without me, he quickly backed off!)
I admit having children has been the hardest and most exhausting thing I've ever done, I love them to very depths of my soul, they are beautiful human beings, who have a fantastic work ethic, incredible moral compass, very compassionate and both of them have the sole ambition of making the world a better place; I'm immensely proud of them (not that I'd ever tell them that or say that to any of my friends as it feels very big headed!)
Oh yeh and everyone loves to judge you as a parent....it's always open season where parenting is concerned!

We’ve actually at one point had 5 pets at the same time: 2 rescue cats, a rescue Jack Russell (she was the craziest, weirdest dog I’ve ever had and we had some rough times 😆 but don’t regret it), a rescue Chihuahua, and a non-rescue Labrador. And while pets can be challenging and a lot of work, especially rescues, but also rewarding, I can’t imagine it’s like having a child! I think all of the pets are possibly trying to fulfil the maternal side of me.

We don’t have 5 pets now just for the record.

My husband definitely pulled his weight with the taking care of the pets, he’s not a lazy or selfish person so after reading everyone’s points on this, I probably don’t need to worry other than it being an irrational worry.

It's a very honest post, and I am sorry you feel that way, but I completely disagree. This is not my experience AT ALL.

It's anonymous forum, so I am not bragging for the sake of it.

a prisoner in your own home. You will never be able to spontaneously make plans again, especially evening and overnight ones. Even a single night away means a crazy amount of effort before and afterwards

it's not true for everyone. Obviously it makes a huge different if you have a strong support network, but for all the people with nannies or just friends and family near by, an overnight just means asking your mum or sister, putting things in a bag and dropping your child.

A day out might have a few truly magical memories but sandwiched between hours of packing, driving, moaning, crying, someone getting carsick, etc.
it's a very very bleak view, and it's not my experience at all either. Yes, it does happen, yes sometimes kids moan and whinge. Often they don't? I swear a day out does not need hours of packing, I don't even spend hours of packing when I take my kids away alone for a long weekend.

It sounds like you are terribly lonely and unsupported, I hope you find a good network of friends to releasing the pressure. No one has the perfect life, we all have ups and downs but your reality is sadly extreme.

I think this is one of the most honest yet balanced posts I've seen and as someone thay sits on the fence deciding if I do or don't and having spent time with my nephews all day it's what I see is reality of having kids.

It's not unreasonable to question these things at all, it's very sensible. There is a whole sub reddit on parents who regret having children because they didn't realise how hard it would be. r/regretfulparents

Surely @User7842462 is only being ‘honest’ about her own experience and the way that she interprets the experiences of those around her through her own (remarkably gloomy lens). Like a pp, I have no reason not to be honest, and this is not my experience at all.

Becoming a parent didn’t fundamentally alter my life a huge amount after returning to work from maternity leave. Having DS was an always interesting and usually very pleasurable addition to a life that had already been good, after the newborn stage, which I didn’t enjoy. Like, @User7842462 , I have one child by choice. We had no family in the UK, and moved to a new part of England when DS was six months, so all childcare, day and night, was paid for, and we both work in demanding FT professional jobs, but were senior enough to be very flexible by the time we had DS.

A couple of things have almost certainly helped. We were both turning 40 when DS was born, so had reserves of patience and resilience, a comfortable joint income, a strong, long marriage, and had done a lot of studying, travelling, moving countries on a whim, partying etc over the previous 20 years, so taking a step back wasn’t a huge sacrifice. DS, while he was an irritable, challenging, high-needs baby (and is still a challenging 12 year old, though a delight), is healthy, and has no additional needs. I had a child with someone I’d been in a relationship for many years, and whose character I knew. He’s an excellent father and husband. We are both in good health (I have no birth injuries). We had a very practical conversation about exactly how we would manage a child, childcare, juggling work and parenting etc, as neither of us ever contemplated being a SAHP.

I still prioritise my needs when necessary. I’m more effective at work since I had DS, and I notice it too with friends — childcare constraints make you work smarter. I maintain good friendships with friends with and without children. We moved countries when it became clear this would be the best option for all three of us. I don’t post any photos of DS on social media. I’m not bothered about Instagrammable ‘magic moments’ because our day to day life is pretty good. The nicest things that have happened recently were going to a concert with friends last weekend, and going for lunch one on one with DS on Tuesday. No photos exist of either. It’s great watching him develop more independence and rediscovering my own freedom to run out and see a film if someone phones unexpectedly.

Life isn’t perfect by any means, and the teens are looming, but it’s certainly satisfying enough. I’m not deluding myself, propping up a shit man, or presenting a falsely smiley face to the world. I would have been differently happy if I’d chosen to stay childfree, but I’m delighted to have DS in my life. I don’t recognise this grimly dutiful existence of relentless hard work and mistreatment.

Im certain it’s some women’s experience, but it’s not mine. Nor do I see it around me.

That you for writing such a great post.
👏👏

For what it's worth, my partner and I don't have kids, by choice. I'll be honest, reading posts on mumsnet make me very very happy about the choice we made.

@User7842462 fab post!!! It’s not pretty but very very honest!

Your post is a little contradictory.

At first you say, with great conviction, 'I completely disagree'... but then go on to admit these things ARE parts of parenting but you can cope 'IF you have this' and 'IF you do that' and 'IF you look at X this way'.

That's an awful lot of variables for something that 'absolutely isn't your experience'.
In any case, it IS that PPs lived experience, so you can't really 'disagree'.

I don't recognise my life in @User7842462 's post, either. I'm sorry that this is how she's experiencing parenthood, and that it clearly resonates with other posters too, but it's certainly not a universal experience.

I also have one child, who will start secondary in the autumn, and whose increasing independence means I've got back most of my ability to spontaneously do things with friends, or with DH, after a long period where we had to take it in turns. I've never been to a spa in my life, nor have I any desire to, and I don't recognise the 'being grateful for 'small crumbs of kindness' -- I'm not entirely sure what this mean, but if it's chldcare, we've always just either taken it in turns to go out separately with friends, or paid for babysitters. Again, that's somewhere where having more money makes a difference to the experience of having a child, as does having a child with a non-asshole, who does his full share and doesn't assume my job is somehow less important since I gave birth.

I don't find having a child 'relentless' and 'shitty' at all.

FWIW OP I’ve got 3 kids under 10 and no family help and I’ve just been for a week away in Italy without husband or kids. Husband went away over Easter. I’m out tonight, was out Monday and Wednesday too. It’s really not impossible for a lot of people. I don’t think any of my ‘mum friends’ are trapped and miserable. They’re all vibrant and busy. Real life is very different to the doom filled black hole of the internet.

I like having kids and I like being a mum. Sometimes it has its hard parts for sure, (being ill while also looking after kids who are ill is my absolute least favourite bit) but overall I’m happy with my life. I like going to school events, I like going to the park, I like baking with my daughter, I like cuddling my baby son in the middle of the night. I feel like an outlier on mumsnet in that regard but very normal in real life- most other mums I know (that don’t have shit husbands) are happy with their lot.

I didn't mean it to be contradictory. I only meant that real life is not a soap opera, and things do happen. I would lie if I said I had never heard "I am bored" from one of my kids.

I also think that it is VERY different if you have a support network or not.
It also different if you have a partner or if you are a single parent, obviously.

It's different if you have a higher paid job, a bigger house to start as opposed to renting a small flat.

Being realistic about your set up, about your income, about your support I think is extremely important.

That said, none of the post I quoted is my life. I only disagree that it's "normal" or everyone's experience. I love days out with my kids, holidays, and I am rarely spending a full day home with them.

It's not fair to say "that's motherhood" based on a poster having a very difficult life. I don't recognise my life or any of my friends' life in it.

Something important not to forget: some of us REALLY wanted a child, and felt we were missing out on everything by not having one. We had the child-free life, we had the single "selfish" life, we got all that of our system and prefer the family set up.

Now if people are much happier by being child-free, don't have one! Kids are not supposed to be a chore or a punishment. They are not synonym of a life destroyed for everybody either. The worst mistake is to go blindly without thinking about the reality, the practicalities, the cost and so on.

@Epicaricacy

Her post is true though. I absolutely love parenthood and currently have 2 babies under 2 with no regrets and would do it again. But the post is true!

I have the biggest support network I know out of all my parent friends. Hands on grandparents both sides that live around the corner , 9 siblings between us so lots of aunts and uncles who are also hands on, plus a 50/50 DP and I can still acknowledge the truth in the post. Even with on-tap childcare.

some mum friends have suffered vaginal prolapses. I had c sections so didn’t but do have a tummy overhang now. So body has been affected (don’t know a mums who hasn’t had any single change at all from pregnancy or birth?)

We can’t just decide last minute on a Friday to hop off to a lodge for the weekend like we used to do. Sure we can plan it a week in advance at the minimum to ensure grandparents are prepared but we can’t just throw some stuff in a bag and rock up at their house and go. If it’s 7pm at night and babies are in bed, we can’t just pop it for a meal as we cba to cook like before and pop to the cinema on the way back as we suddenly fancy it. Takeaway and Netflix it is.

We just drove cross country with both babies for a holiday. Their too young to bicker but we did have to stop loads of times at service stations for bottle feeds, nappy changes and because babies can’t be in a car seat over a certain length of time. We had to book a hotel to break up the journey there and back.

Even with the biggest of support networks like I’m fortunate to have, me(and DP) have to carry a mental load. Yes we can go out but we have to arrange with grandparents/family who will have kids and what time drop off/pick up. Pack a bag, make sure to do a handover of what they’ve eaten, when next feed is due etc. ensure their is enough nappies, formula etc. We can’t just say ‘let’s go out’ and walk out the door!

Unless someone’s an absent parent with 24/7 nannies or basically hands over their kids to a grandparent to raise then yes you do lose spontaneity and basic things you wouldn’t think about before like going to the cinema after work becomes more difficult/juggle.

That doesn’t negate the beauty of parenting. For us the juggle and logistics is so worth it! I’ll juggle for the next 18 years or more if it means having my gorgeous babies. But it is still a juggle!

So for me that post is the real experience of parenting and for every single parent I know. I don’t know how it can’t be?

Cold feet. You want kids and now you're scared. Been there. You'll regret not trying x

So for me that post is the real experience of parenting and for every single parent I know. I don’t know how it can’t be?

But your recent post describes an entirely different set of situations to @User7842462 's grim post, @Buttercupsandpoppys.

You're describing your current situation at the coalface of having two under two obviously driving long distances needs to be handled differently, obviously you can't just throw a toddler and a baby at grandparents and say 'Bye!' Whereas @User7842462 describes being a 'prisoner in your own home', and says that the reality of having children is 'relentless and shitty' you don't sound as if you think that. You sound like you're (understandably) temporarily frustrated at how unspontaneous you have to be, and how much prep it takes to go on holiday.

(My child is about to start secondary, is quite independent, has been getting himself to and from school, happy to be home alone for a few hours, make himself simple meals, book his own haircuts, arrange his own social life etc for a while now -- your freedoms aren't gone forever!)

You describe a stomach overhang and note that friends have had prolapses. @User7842462 describes permanent birth injuries, self-hatred, disfigurement, incontinence and permanent celibacy.

She says 'the majority of men are useless'. You sound as if you have a relatively hands-on partner, or at least you don't say otherwise?

You sound perfectly cheerful. @User7842462 says

the everyday reality of having children is shitty and relentless across the board. Anyone trying to project a different image to the outside world is simply deluding themselves

I don't think you are describing similar things at all.

Buttercupsandpoppys

honestly, it really depends on your set up.

To follow your example, I have plenty of friends who can decide at the last minute to go to the cinema: they make a call and a sister/ niece/ neighbour pops there to babysit. I have done it with my neighbours a few times myself, we're good friends.

I don't put having a nappy bag ready, for me or for anyone else, in my "mental load" to be honest.

I have enough friends with a better post-baby body than my own pre-baby one to know that many women are not destroyed by children. My own abs are a bit less obvious, I should probably go to the gym right now instead of posting on MN 😂

So while it's of course different for everybody, and people must be realistic, it's not doom and gloom for everyone. Life does change, but if you go a bit with the flow, it doesn't feel like the poster who feels trapped in her own home, that's awful and that's not right.

It doesn't have to be negative at all, but of course you do need to be realistic about finance, time, support network, work.

Thank you @Liripipe yes it is relentless but overall very positive for me. My DP is 50/50 in all aspects fortunately. Your response is very balanced though.

@Epicaricacy response sounds more extreme the opposite way tbh which is minimising the logistics of babies/small children and how even with all the support and care in the world, life is completely different (not worse).

The fact her response to me, a mum of 2 under 2. Is that there is no ‘mental load’ to leaving the house and lots of mums do just last minute decide to nip out for meals and to the cinema at night is just grating and untruthful. Oh and these mums also have bodies better than before pregnancies and babies.

I have tons of mum friends from all walks of life plus the mums I meet daily at baby groups and it’s not true for any of them I’ve met and I meet different ones most days at baby/toddler things.

I mean sure.. maybe 1 in 500 mums or something are spontaneously popping out at 8pm for food on a Tuesday (with their hot bodies with abs, perked breasts and no stretch marks). With a 24/7 suiteable babysitter available at a moments notice to swoop in and not even need a handover. But.. I doubt it.

If you are a single parent it's nigh on impossible though

The fact her response to me, a mum of 2 under 2. Is that there is no ‘mental load’ to leaving the house and lots of mums do just last minute decide to nip out for meals and to the cinema at night is just grating and untruthful. Oh and these mums also have bodies better than before pregnancies and babies.

I am sorry it's grating, but it's not untruthful.

I leave the house alone, I have my keys/ phone/ credit card/ pack of gum/ tissues/ water. I leave the house with my kids I grab the nappy bag that is always full, spare clothes, snacks, comforter toy, the only hard bit might be to grab the actual kids 😂

I have NCT friends, school mums friends, work mum friends, neighbours, sisters... and I stand by what I said, support makes a huge difference but as much as life changes with kids, it's simply not true that these women are now trapped and joyless in their home.

Why do you think creches at the local gyms are so busy? Because of all the new mums who keep exercising and use the facilities to leave their baby or toddler. Why are mums "bootcamp" "pram bootcamps" etc so popular and busy? Because of all the new mums who come and exercise?

It takes effort, but so does it when you go and exercise when you are child free and come back from work knackered.

If you are a single parent it's nigh on impossible though
It must be incredibly hard without family support, that couldn't be more true and it's not a fair set up.

When you are a couple, you do not need to have 2 parents present every evening and every day! Mum stays, dad can go and play golf or cycling like any other MN male poster. Dad stays, mum goes to see friends or go to the gym.