Voting in an hour - tell me why I shouldn’t vote reform

[Wentie]

This isn’t a wind up. I’ve done countless different quiz type things and the policies I most align to come out strongly reform. I would previously have been a Tory voter. I don’t like farage and I do feel prejudiced against reform from what is portrayed in the media - but their policies appeal to me. Anyone have any actual facts or glaring holes that I might have missed?

I agree. He has openly said he wants an American style insurance scheme. Americans pay the most for healthcare in the world, but have the worst health outcomes. The very rich do okay, no one else does. If you get a complex cancer the treatment will bankrupt you.

It's funny to me how Farage is all about "telling it how it is" except for when other people call him a racist misogynist disaster capitalist proto-fascist twat. Then out come the supporters to say "that's simplistic and lazy and doesn't tell the whole truth" 🙄

It tells enough of the truth though doesn't it? Surely? Farage holds up convicted rapists and domestic abusers as "fantastic" role models for "emasculated" young men? I think it's fair to say he's pro-rape? Is that not a problem for you as a woman?

That is because Farage is like the racist Uncle who is a total pain, says he calls a spade a spade, and then calls everyone snowflakes if they object to what he says.

TwigletsAndRadishes
Well done for repeating UK tabloid bunkum. yes there is a bit of 'interest' in EU countries but the EU as an institution is NOT falling apart, it is grappling with worsening weather trends and is hindered by the war in Ukraine where the usual sopurces of gas and oil have been disrupted The 'distinctlt Right' leaning parties in France and elsewhere have no real, costed and WORKABLE plans other than populist rhetoric as I saw when Reading Bardella's 'manifesto' last week. Different groups of farmers are protesting because implementing a 'more green agenda' will cost them money in some cases so needs their own governments to assist with either funds or legislation to smooth the transition. This is reported by the trash papers in the UK as serious issues but is simply a 'bedding in' period for necessary change.

Looking again at the title of this thread. It's only Reform which is telling people how to vote - in line with their authoritarian style.

The long-established parties - which each have deep roots in British political life - don't tell people how to vote. They ask people to lend their support.

This is a really important difference. It's important for us to have autonomy and to be treated with respect.

Reform have a shabby view of human nature as ungenerous. And I suspect Reform have a dim view of the intelligence of the voters they see as easy pickings.

One of my favourite people grew up in Clacton. Their policies would have done nothing for him!

Wasn't it 100 a head to join him on the 'Freedom March' for Brexit? That he dropped out of? In a way, it is very clever, what he has done. He styles himself as a politician but what he really is, is a Trojan horse for corporates and lobbyists, who line his pockets to convince us that we don't need workers rights, benefits and support for the most vulnerable in our society, that the answer to the NHS is an American model that will push COL into the stratosphere and leave people bankrupt if they get sick. He and his backers would asset strip this country in a way that would make the Tory party look like rank amateurs, while we pay them for the privilege of living a far more miserable existence than we have now. The fact that he does it so openly and STILL people think he has their best interests at heart, astounds me.

I get that people are disillusioned with politicians. But my vote will always go to someone who seems to have a vision of what will make this country work better for everyone, someone who seems to have a passion for making positive change. If they get it wrong, if they turn out to be not what they thought they were, I will vote for someone else next time. But to let the door open, even a crack, by voting for the likes of Farage, sickens me. Even if I convince myself it is tactical.

I mean, look what's happening in France this week. The only difference is the level at which it's happening.

@TwigletsAndRadishes do you honestly believe that leaving the ECHR would be a good thing?!

How anyone thinks that would be a good thing is completely beyond me.
I like my human rights thanks

The difference between the far right National Rally in France and Reform in the U.K. is that the French national rally doesn’t want to leave the EU. They are staying in the EU. The stupidity of Brexit isn’t something that even these French idiot right wingers want to copy.

Is there any common ground at all between Reform and Lib Dem? I can't see any.

No, there is no common ground.

There is no party I want to vote for nationally, so I’ll vote for what’s best for us locally. The current Con MP did nothing for us, whereas her predecessor did lots, so it is possible to make a difference locally.

The local LibDem candidate lives locally, does a lot of good in our community, and is 2nd in our local polls.

So, I’ve voted for the no. 2 in our area, who seems a good person, to get rid of the nightmare we currently have.

This IMO is a productive vote.

Yes, I do. Is America in the ECHR? Australia? Canada? Do they have pretty robust human rights in those countries? Of course they do. Stop acting as if the world is only as big as the EU. It's a very insular mindset.

This totally.

They're even worse than the Tories, and that's no small feat.

Worth also remembering that Farage hardly ever turned up to the European parliament when he was voted in as an MEP.

Cannot understand why anyone would vote for these grifters

Nobody can tell you not to vote Reform. It's your freedom and right to vote for whichever party you choose.

Becuase they are a bunch of facists.

This

Because they are all lies. Their policies are unworkable and not costed they know they won't win and have to put them into place so they can promise the world

Also ignoring they are a racist fascist organisation

Do you think the native people of the countries you mentioned believe they have robust human rights?

The US and Canada are observer members of the ECHR because they are in support to European countries. The ECHR is not part of the EU. The US and Japan have the death penalty which is not supported by the ECHR.

The other difference is that Reform is a fringe party in the UK (albeit one with significant support), whereas the RN could actually win a majority and so the other parties are essentially forcing the electorate to vote tactically by agreeing between themselves who will drop out of the race. The haggling that has gone on this week in France has been quite something to behold. Two years ago there were only 8 constituencies in France where more than two candidates qualified for and participated in the second round. This year there were over 300 constituencies where three or even four candidates qualified for the second round, and over 200 candidates have strategically withdrawn following this week's negotiations between the different parties.

Because the basis of every one of their election manifesto pledges is some insane, stereotypical, dehumanising, dog whistle nonsense meant to appeal to racists and the hard of thinking.

Because the venn diagram of white supremacists, people who didn’t pass their GCSE’s and the average reform voter is a perfect circle.

Go and read a bit more about the history of fascism and the dangers of nationalism. Google ‘demagogue’ and ‘Jingoism’ while you are thinking about it 🙄.

No, he didn’t say that about Andrew Tate, you’re right.

He said it about Dereck Chisora, a man with multiple charges of assault against him, the most notable being the assault in 2010 of his girlfriend - and him being a heavyweight champion boxer. That’s who Farage thinks is ‘a fantastic role model’.

Andrew Tate, he merely thinks is an important voice for young men.

So important to get the quotes right, you’re correct.

You people work on the basis that if you keep minimising, excusing and deflecting their misogynist, bigot, hero’s words, they'll eventually get forgotten. It happens all the time. You’re doing it now.

Here's a good reason NOT to vote Liebour.

One of the reform leaflets I saw said “zero waiting lists” as one of their policies. If you genuinely believe they can provide that, I am worried for your intellect. I’m not surprised their policies appeal to you if you have zero critical thinking skills about what they promise and what they can actually offer. Never mind the disgusting ethics and morals they stand for.

Perhas don't vote for financially illiterate racists 🤷‍♀️

Also it is a party run by a millionaire and a racist grifter who give zero fucks about you and your life.