To feel sad my daughter’s class mixing

[Orangeyyq]

DD is is an 3 form entry primary school. They decided for next year to mix the classes up for some reason (different reasons given everytime people ask). My DD is best friends with a girl whose lovely I think but I feel can dominate her at times. My DD is very quiet and easiky- led. School also noticed this last parents evening and hinted maybe best they in different class next year.

Kids had to pick 2 names that they would like to be with next year and 1 name is guaranteed to be in same class. When choosing I encouraged DD to put down another child instead of the friend but she didn’t want to she cried and said that she’s her ONLY friend. I emailed school and said I think she should be with her friend as I felt even though she’s dominating she is the only friend she actually has.

I feel I made a huge mistake. Why did I get involved. I feel I’ve kind of wrecked my DD’s chances at friendship. Just for context I’m ND and I don’t think DD is but she is being let down as I can’t establish healthy. Friendships to model to it’ll her what they look like.

please be kind, I feel I’ve made such a mess. School cannot change it now as names have gone out to parents etc.

It's great as they make other friends. Been through this twice!

I think we've all been a little over involved in our children's friendships and gone OTT over things that are minor in hindsight.

Ours were shuffled between P1 and P2 and I requested DS not be with his then closest friend for good reasons. I bored DH to death about it, worried endlessly. Within a year DS wasn't entirely sure who his previous bestie even was, had completely moved on.

Similarly, the amount of parents over stressed about high school classmates completely out numbers the kids just getting on with it.

The school didn't act just because of your email, maybe because DD only put down the name, maybe it just isn't that big a deal.
All you can do is teach your DD boundaries and confidence to handle life, not control what shes faced with.

Aww I really sympathise with this as like you I struggle with trauma and friendships. My dd is 13 and I think I am ND and sometimes I have to really pull myself back and let her take control of her life and not try to be a helicopter parent. It’s hard as Pitt minds are on over drive but we need to support them and let them make their own way.
you haven’t ruined anything though many of us mums do this ND or not, it’s natural instinct. She is only little and she will find her way as she has a mum that loves and cares for her and wants the best

Dds school mix classes every year except for year 5 and 6 who remain the same.

Great, so 2 disrupted classes rather than 1. How is this fair on the children who are better behaved? My daughter had a disruptive child in her class for 1 term and it hugely impacted on the whole classes learning, and that's just 1 child in a whole class of well behaved children. This child dominated the classroom, the other 20 well behaved children didn't have any impact on her behaviour, but she certainly had a (negative) impact on their learning

If the teachers, with all their skills and training, can't improve the disruptive behaviour of some children, it's not really fair to expect young children to try to improve it, they are there to learn, not manage another child behaviour. At that age, it's hard enough for them to manage their own emotions.

It was this attitude which nearly led to my daughter being a school refuser - the disruptive child poked her, hit her, took and damaged her stuff, and the teacher told her off when she complained as she was 'supossed to be modelling positive behaviour'. So she just had to put up with being hit until enough was enough and I asked the head to move her - she said she was appalled that the teacher expected a 6 year old to do what the grown up teacher couldn't do.

I do appreciate though that it's harder for the teacher and they want to 'spread the load', but surely the more experienced teacher takes the more challenging class? That's what seems to happen in my daughter year, and her class always seems to get the younger less experienced teacher as their class is better behaved. I do feel for the teacher with the tougher class, it's a really tough job, but it just feels unfair that well behaved children lose out

Thats great I'm stealing that thanks :)

How is is fair on the other children in the class with the disruptive children who may be targeting them? Why should they not be split up?

the disruptive child poked her, hit her, took and damaged her stuff

This happened to my child until he reacted. Should he have been kept in the same class with this child the following year?

Great, so 2 disrupted classes rather than 1. How is this fair on the children who are better behaved? My daughter had a disruptive child in her class for 1 term and it hugely impacted on the whole classes learning, and that's just 1 child in a whole class of well behaved children. This child dominated the classroom, the other 20 well behaved children didn't have any impact on her behaviour, but she certainly had a (negative) impact on their learning

Right so imagine you have class A and class B. Class A has 10 disruptive children in it and class B has 0. As a result the other 20 children in class A have had their learning disrupted for a whole year and now some of them are not meeting their expectations. Meanwhile class B are flying. If the classes are not mixed then the other children in class A face falling further behind. How is that fair on them?

My ds9 is in y4 and has had a whole year with disruptive kids in the classroom. I am looking forward to the classes being mixed for y5. I am not expecting all of them to be in the other class but even just 1 or 2 would make a huge difference because the disruptive ones egg each other on.

I am not expecting all of them to be in the other class but even just 1 or 2 would make a huge difference because the disruptive ones egg each other on.

Some specifically target certain other children too so they need to be split. Mine might have been labelled disruptive when he was pushed to react, but he never started a fight, ever. He was just the youngest and a reactive little kid if a bully figured out how to get to him. Separated from the child targeting him and he could just get on with his work.

I know I’m crazy! But I’m still thinking about it and what a bad mother I am. I’m trying to be practical so the kids that she likes in other classes shall I call their parents and arrange play dates? I don’t organise them as I always wait to see if others will contact me. I’m so bad at these things.

Mixing classes is a good thing. There are always unsure at the beginning but it general it shakes things up and helps them make friendships.

You are worried about something that hasn't even happened.

If a teacher has gone as far as telling you at a parents evening that your daughter and her friend should not be in the same class next year then it must be an issue at school. Otherwise she would have said that there was nothing to worry about.

The teacher will know more about the friendship than you do as she sees both children every day. It is possible that whatever you said in parent's evening had no baring at all on the teacher's opinion as she will already know what's going on.

She will know other children in whatever class she ends up in. She's been at school with them for five years. Your daughter will form new relationships and that will probably be a good thing.

They aren't strangers and I think you need to relax about it and stop demonising other children. And hanging out with other women who talk like that about nine year olds.

If you are not careful then you yourself are going to get a reputation for being one of the less nice girls.

Your daughter was upset because you tried to make her not write the name of her friend. That would have been a huge deal to her. It would have been akin to telling the friend that she didn't like her and didn't want her as a friend. But fortunately she did write her name and that bomb has been avoided and now the school are going to do what they think is best for every child.

When we do the class splits it is up to the teachers if we split or not and we put a lot of thought and time into getting it right.

Moving 1 child who is deliberately bullying another child to another class is very different to mixing up 2 classes of 1 class of well behaved children and 1 of disruptive children because the teacher is struggling to manage their behaviour.
The first is for the benefit a specific child, the 2nd is to spread out the disruptive children to make life more equal for the teachers in that year group. And in our case the bully wasnt moved out of the class, she was moved to the other side of the classroom to my daughter and sat next to a teaching assistant

@Orangeyyq

Part of growing up is learning how to navigate friendships - your daughter will figure it out - leave her to it.

I'm a yr6 Primary School teacher & girls in particular change friendship groups a lot in the last 2 yrs - there's hormone-fuelled drama all over the place but it usually all works out for the best.

Plus, in 2 short years time, when she starts Secondary School, neither of you will have any say whatsoever in who she's in classes with every day!

Of course you as a parent with a child is a disruptive classroom are going to want less of then. And of course I as a parent of a child in a settled classroom are going to want things to stay the same.
It is such a shame though that a small number of children are allowed to disrupt the education of the rest.
My daughters juniors took a different approach a few years ago with a particularly tough year group - they recognised as you said that achievement was beng negatively affected by behaviour and split the 2 class year group into 3 classes - 2 classes each of about 20 non disruptive children and a 3rd class with about 12 disruptive children, which was taken by one of the deputy heads.
The 2 classes of 20 got boosted learning through a peaceful classroom of smaller numbers to help make up what had missed, and the 12 had nowhere to hide compared with being in a class of nearly 30 and the deputy pulled them into line. I understand from parents in that year group that at least half were found to have an additional need which hadn't been picked up in the larger classes, such as dyslexia or needing glasses (playing up as didn't want to admit couldn't see the work). When the classes were returned together the following year, behaviour was much better. Schools need to take a more creative approach than just shoving a few disruptive children in with a well behaved class and hoping for the best.

There are 2 issues here: you being disappointed the classes are changing and you feeling like if she wasn't with her friend she might have gone into a 'better' class.

Firstly the school have presumably tried to make the classes equal as they know the children, so there probably isn't a massive difference between classes. Secondly if you hadn't said anything, she might still be in her current class but her best friend might be in another class. Thirdly she didn't make friends with the girls she is currently with, so might make new friends. They will probably have deliberately split up dominating groups and it is quite likely that some of the 'bossy' girls are also lovely bit were just in a tricky friendship dynamic themselves. You advocated for what you felt your DD needed based on what she told you, that's a good thing!

It wasn't recognised as bullying in our case. The older child was very skilled at hiding what he was doing and lying afterwards so my child's reaction was what was seen. I knew the other child outside of school. I think mixing is a good thing where it splits up children who seem to have an issue between them.

Happens all the time in the hope that the "good" children's behaviour will influence the "bad" children to behave better. Often just results in the ones who want to learn being distracted by the others.

Hmm. You’ve waded in and they gave you what you wanted now. If it isn’t working out or you have concerns as the year goes on, you may be able to ask for them to move her again… they may refuse though.

I dislike class mixing. They did it every year at DDs school. They never seemed to keep best friends together, even when there were no issues .
So do you now think you shouldn't have asked for your DD to be with this girl? Wouldn't your DD have been super upset if they were separated?
Just because they are in the same class doesn't mean they will remain friends or that your DD can't make new friends. I'm rather impressed that the school listened to you. Parents had no say over who their child was with in DDs school.

Exactly, I can understand why teachers do it, but it's not helpful in most cases. Goes from being 1 disrupted class to 2 disrupted classes

Yes to both parts of this. ‘Bossy’ is such a gendered term. Like ‘shrill’. A ‘boss’ can be male, but being ‘bossy’ is both only used of women and girls AND seen as a bad trait.

@Bushmillsbabe
"
Of course you as a parent with a child is a disruptive classroom are going to want less of then. And of course I as a parent of a child in a settled classroom are going to want things to stay the same.
It is such a shame though that a small number of children are allowed to disrupt the education of the rest.
My daughters juniors took a different approach a few years ago with a particularly tough year group - they recognised as you said that achievement was beng negatively affected by behaviour and split the 2 class year group into 3 classes - 2 classes each of about 20 non disruptive children and a 3rd class with about 12 disruptive children, which was taken by one of the deputy heads.
The 2 classes of 20 got boosted learning through a peaceful classroom of smaller numbers to help make up what had missed, and the 12 had nowhere to hide compared with being in a class of nearly 30 and the deputy pulled them into line. I understand from parents in that year group that at least half were found to have an additional need which hadn't been picked up in the larger classes, such as dyslexia or needing glasses (playing up as didn't want to admit couldn't see the work). When the classes were returned together the following year, behaviour was much better. Schools need to take a more creative approach than just shoving a few disruptive children in with a well behaved class and hoping for the best."

Sounds fabulous. Sadly very unlikely to happen at a time when schools have no money and staffing shortages.