The "terrifying threat from Labour"

[BigWordAtlas]

I know that Tory HQ staff often come on here and post, and will be doing even more so at the moment.

I also know that Kier Starmer has done a terrible job in gender critical thinking, and members like him, Rayner and Lammy are currently an absolute shitshow when it comes to the rights and protections of women and children. I'm not looking forward to the battle we'll face after the election to reverse the damage that's been done and to protect those rights, and fully bring down all the MRA policies that have formally or informally kicked in over the last few years.

But does anyone else feel like the absolute barrage on here in the last few days about the Holy Bloody Handmaid Terror that will be Labour's government is a bit... overblown? A bit Tory HQ-flavoured? They're absolutely panicking at the moment and will do any kind of astroturfing they can to chip away at votes, particularly in swing constituencies like mine.

No party is perfect, and Labour is currently far from perfect for me and my children. But realistically, I have to vote Labour where I am if I want to keep a Tory candidate out. I hate their gender ID policies, but this nail-bitten tone of total and complete apocalypse (and yes, I've heard posters use that word in this context) feels unhelpful and not really equipping anyone to improve things after the GE. They made me feel extremely anxious until I just hit a wall with the frantic language, and now I'm feeling much more pragmatic and ready to fight with Labour on this stuff, rather than against them and allowing another party to get in.

So AIBU to feel that most of these posts are at least seeded by Tory HQ, rather than actual Labour voters like me?

<hard hat donned>

Doo ok you think this is likely?

I’m terrified that the Labour Party will continue to change our constitution by adopting more international laws and treaties and handing policy making and decisions to quangos, NGOs and local government. This will shift power from parliament and limit the ability of both houses and the electorate to hold them to account. This started to happen in the Blair government and this is why civil servants can quote international laws and treaties as reasons for not complying with ministerial instruction because they override UK laws

Im terrified Labour will give 16 year olds the vote. This is gerrymandering and designed to keep Labour in power just like Mandelson admitted the Blair government increased immigration because immigrants tend to vote Labour

I’m not Tory HQ by the way, just an ordinary middle age married mum working in the NHS and living in the suburbs

Does left wing really exist anymore, in the mainstream political parties?

Yes, I wouldn't mind a Blairite centrist Labour government (without the war-mongering, please), but happy to be corrected about the many ways they doubtless could have done things much better. PFI contracts, for one?

I know it's too soon to say, and we shouldn't down tools yet, but it feels like the TRA/MRA rainbow is fading.

I had the same thing happen once when I asked a question 🙈 I don't like how Keir Starmer doesn't seem to know his own mind on the gender issues. I won't be voting labour for a number of reasons.

Yes, you're right, this is a US term, sorry. I just mean that if the HoC is much more full of Labour MPs, then at worst there's less chance of challenge to the more wonky-left policies by the Commons. [edited for my exhausted mis-type]

On the World At One there was a Tory politician claiming that if Labour won there would be a "one party state run by socialists"

If a Tory MP cannot tell the difference between a one party state, and a multi-party state where one party wins a big majority in free and fair elections, then they deserve to lose.

It is political illiteracy.

Always tired, don't you think it's bad enough for women?.
Don't you think it's already bad enough, and yet your happy to now see a legal definition corrupted and changed to include any men who want to?

The issue with targeting the rich is that they can afford to get on a plane and go anywhere in the world
To then pay for all the stuff money has been spent on as “the rich” have gone, it’s those on under £50k who cannot move who end up paying for it

Be very careful of what you wish for

@Mycatsmudge Oh no!!! International treaties!!! We can't have those international treaties that negotiate peace and support international trade.
I know you are just scare mongering to people who do not understand what you really posted. But some people do make a lot of money if we have more wars and more people dying. I would like to see an international peace treaty that stopped war in the Middle East, especially involving Israel and Palestine. But you are obviously afraid Labour might do that and want no extra international treaties/
I would also welcome an international treaty that dismantled some of the trade barriers British businesses have with Europe. The amount of red tape is ridiculous. But you would prefer for that red tape to remain.

The VAT policy isn’t Blair-like

I’d say gender stuff isn’t either but the GRA was 2004, they lacked foresight

The harder part for Labour now will be to meet spending expectations with no Blair PFI or boom, which led to bust

But also a rising dissatisfaction with border stuff which we’re seeing in the EU. I think Starmer could face an issue with that

I agree with these concerns too. Anything that shifts power into the hands of the unaccountable is pretty scary, and poor for the country, and jesus! I love the 16 year olds I know but fucking hell none of them (or us at that age) should be voting. Half the adults I know don't seem to have the life experience or perspective to enjoy actual democratic responsibility, so please excuse hormonal, tiktok-addled, non-tax paying, non-rent paying children that chore.

If anything, maybe we should raise the voting age to 45?

Higher earner here, very happy to pay more under Labour for decent public services. The only thing that terrifies me is more Tory government

Terrified of Starmer, that’s a bit strong!
Our household income is around £140k a year. We’re voting Labour. Can’t bloody wait to get the tories out. The only thing that worries me about Starmer is that he’s not left enough.

Do I think we might pay more tax? Possibly. Do I think that might lead to a better NHS and education system? Almost certainly. Along with lifting a significant number of school children out of poverty. The Tory policies we now have are a ticking time bomb and sure to cost us far more money in the long run. Children are getting a shite education which means they they won’t be fit for work, they’ll lead unhealthy lifestyles so there’ll be a burden on the NHS and society. Vulnerable families are not getting any support so swathes of children are being raised who will spend a lifetime bouncing in and out of prison at huge expense to the rest of us.

I’ll be honest, I don’t see how things can get much worse unless Farage gets in!

The left have FAR more influence than the right. In fact, I don't know how the left can complain about bias and keep a straight face! They dominate everything!! The 'long march through the institutions' is pretty much complete. The left dominate the BBC, the universities, the arts, the publishing industry, even the libraries. For crying out loud, just wander through Waterstones and you'll see book after book attacking British history and British heroes. The media in this country is overwhelmingly liberal-left. If you really want to be a counter-cultural rebel, you have to be a patriotic conservative!

I regard myself as a moderate conservative. Actually, I'd say 'left-wing conservative' best suits me. But I am terrified of what's coming, and I say that with my hand on my heart. We are about to elect a socialist government with a massive majority. Obviously they will wreck the economy, that kind of goes without saying. But they will also do nothing to control immigration. On the contrary, it will get worse. Some Labour activists believe in open borders ffs. If the Tories let in 750,000 people in one year, what the hell are Labour going to do? If they have a huge majority, they'll disregard any protests and open the floodgates. That means endless, and I mean endless, house building. Make the most of those fields where you walk your dog. In fact, make the most of any quiet rural spot where you go to escape the noise and traffic, because after ten years of Starmer, central and southern England are going to be covered in ghastly rabbit hutch houses jammed on top of one another.

Giving young people the right to vote in elections is not gerrymandering. There is no objective reason why we set the voting age at 18; it has dropped over the years. Until 1969 you had to be 21 to vote.

On the other hand, the Conservatives really have been gerrymandering, and have admitted to it. They brought in voter ID because they thought that young people would be less likely to have it; they discovered that it was old people who didn't have it. Jacob Rees-Mogg has literally admitted to this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65599380

The idea the rick are terrified of a Starmer Labour government is rubbish.
Traditional Conservative major donors and big businesses have donated to the Starmer Labour government. They are doing so because they know his plans will improve the economy and boost business.

Re the rich I think it depends how rich... Extremely rich people, can be very fluid in where they live and move too.

Do I think we might pay more tax? Possibly. Do I think that might lead to a better NHS and education system? Almost certainly. Along with lifting a significant number of school children out of poverty. The Tory policies we now have are a ticking time bomb and sure to cost us far more money in the long run. Children are getting a shite education which means they they won’t be fit for work, they’ll lead unhealthy lifestyles so there’ll be a burden on the NHS and society. Vulnerable families are not getting any support so swathes of children are being raised who will spend a lifetime bouncing in and out of prison at huge expense to the rest of us.

Exactly, @LoveSandbanks . It's a lot of sloganeering about "Labour would be WORSE" while absolutely and systematically fucking up all the functioning prospects for the country, from education and healthcare to trade and investment.

I agree it's a major issue to lose all the super-earners who'll jaunt abroad if they feel they're being taxed to heavily here, but things are going in reverse in terms of quality of life for pretty much everyone under the current government.

Whereas Tory PMs - Johnson, for example - have definitely been workaholics, eh?

@Cooper77 I am a centrist. You sound like the type of Conservative party vote who is retired in a pretty village and wants to stop any house building within 5 miles of where they live.
For the rest of us, Labours policies will improve the economy. Conservative policies have made the economy worse. We need a strong economy before we can do anything else. We need businesses thriving and lots of decent paid jobs. The current Conservatives have already shown they can not deliver this.

Well of course, he's a globalist, neo liberal FFS. A Labour government will carry on transferring wealth to the rich.

@VickyEadieofThigh that comment you are answering is a lie. Starmer said he keeps Friday evening free for his family. A pretty sensible thing to do.

This. 100%

The left have FAR more influence than the right. In fact, I don't know how the left can complain about bias and keep a straight face! They dominate everything!! The 'long march through the institutions' is pretty much complete. The left dominate the BBC, the universities, the arts, the publishing industry, even the libraries. For crying out loud, just wander through Waterstones and you'll see book after book attacking British history and British heroes. The media in this country is overwhelmingly liberal-left. If you really want to be a counter-cultural rebel, you have to be a patriotic conservative!

@Cooper77 I think about this a fair bit, and I'm not sure that's really accurate. That the major institutions are dominated by the Left, I don't disagree with at all - that's how the Left have shot themselves in the foot with all this gender stuff, now all the cultural institutions are telling us penises are allowed into women's wards (if they are magical female penises) and Joan of Arc was actually a trans man. Women are rightly up in arms about it.

But in terms of actual sway in society: look at who owns the major media platforms, besides the BBC - it's right-wing billionaires and oligarchs. Not to go all Marxist, but mainstream comms these days is very much 'unions are grifters, public sector workers are lazy leeches, only suckers pay taxes, and don't worry about the Tory government's behaviour, have you seen this celebrity's tweet about the Royal Family'? We don't have third spaces to debate major points face to face or listen to different people's stories, we just have our social media echo chambers, so headlines and news stories (and thus policies) are still often shaped by these billionaires' mouthpieces.

(I think gender ideology is the exception to this general rule.)

Yes, fuck them for that.