The "terrifying threat from Labour"

[BigWordAtlas]

I know that Tory HQ staff often come on here and post, and will be doing even more so at the moment.

I also know that Kier Starmer has done a terrible job in gender critical thinking, and members like him, Rayner and Lammy are currently an absolute shitshow when it comes to the rights and protections of women and children. I'm not looking forward to the battle we'll face after the election to reverse the damage that's been done and to protect those rights, and fully bring down all the MRA policies that have formally or informally kicked in over the last few years.

But does anyone else feel like the absolute barrage on here in the last few days about the Holy Bloody Handmaid Terror that will be Labour's government is a bit... overblown? A bit Tory HQ-flavoured? They're absolutely panicking at the moment and will do any kind of astroturfing they can to chip away at votes, particularly in swing constituencies like mine.

No party is perfect, and Labour is currently far from perfect for me and my children. But realistically, I have to vote Labour where I am if I want to keep a Tory candidate out. I hate their gender ID policies, but this nail-bitten tone of total and complete apocalypse (and yes, I've heard posters use that word in this context) feels unhelpful and not really equipping anyone to improve things after the GE. They made me feel extremely anxious until I just hit a wall with the frantic language, and now I'm feeling much more pragmatic and ready to fight with Labour on this stuff, rather than against them and allowing another party to get in.

So AIBU to feel that most of these posts are at least seeded by Tory HQ, rather than actual Labour voters like me?

<hard hat donned>

I wish half this amount of campaigning went into holding our government to account on falling rape conviction rates

Yes, I posted on another thread today about getting pelvic inflammatory disease because I couldn't get an appointment to have my coil removed.

Compare the cost of a ten minute appointment with a nurse with the cost of an ambulance, a visit to resus, a ten day stay in the hospital, all the antibiotics and painkillers I needed, a CT scan, the follow up appointments I needed with the GP, etc.

They saved themselves a few quid by spending thousands.

And none of you seem to care that we need a strong economy to pay for good public services. The Conservative government have destroyed our economy. Major donors who use to give to the Conservatives and big businesses are now giving to the Labour government. Because they understand Starmers party policies will create a strong economy.
Or do you all think public services can be funded from thin air? We need a strong economy. We do not have one. Vote for Starmer to get one.

It is because half of those shouting about this do not understand that there are already exemptions under the law. I have read the law and guidance and I understand it. Refuges are making a choice when they admit trans people. Although some may not understand the law.

It’s not just about refuges.

If you understand better than others can you say where men with a GRC will have access under Labour?

@Alwaystired94 @Melisha @JaneV1984Madness I think all of you are agreeing with each other, really, and I agree with you too: that women's safety and rights are under threat (those that haven't been damaged or removed already) and it comes from gender ideology, which goes hand in hand with patriarchal thinking that has made rape prosecutions nigh-on impossible, porn culture normalised, and VAWG as something even our potential next PM says he'll "try to halve".

Women are having a shit time right now, but voting for Conservative, Reform, or even Greens and assuming it'll be better is so wilfully blind it's a bit depressing (you can vote for whoever you like, but this particular thinking is mad).

I have to vote Labour on the 4th because any other vote is effectively Tory support here.

I wouldn't agree that VAWG comes from Gender Ideology. It comes from misogyny and hatred. It's awful for women right now, i just find the conversations centering around the TW/WR side really redundant in the face of what else we as a sex are facing.

@EasternStandard as you will know, very few have a GRC. Very few people. There are exemptions in place for services like refuges and rape crisis. For toilets I am seeing some places now having a women's and a gender neutral toilet - men's is gender neutral. I think that is a reasonable response.
There are virtually no public toilets left in the City I live in anyway, they have been closed all over the country. What is left is largely in private buildings that make their own policies. Lobby them if you are not happy with their policy.

If you are talking about womens rights, what I want most is for rape convictions to soar. At the moment rape is effectively decriminalised as there is so little chance any rapist will be convicted. Rapists know at the money if they rape a woman the chances are nothing will happen.
I also want refuges to be properly funded so that no woman that they judge to need urgent accommodation, gets turned away. Many are turned away, in some cases multiple times. Research shows a sizeable number give up trying to leave their abuser.

I can lobby as I wish and I’d like legislative change for women and children. Many businesses are risk averse when it comes to litigation from TRAs, which is enabled by current unclear legislation.

But can you clarify will there be any female spaces where men with a GRC can enter under Labour? And if that’s a no what happens when a male with a GRC does enter a public female space?

Can you say specifically what the outcome would be

The situation for women is horrific. Ridiculously low rape convictions, lack of funding to rape and domestic violence organisations, lack of legal aid, lack of refuges, lack of decent medical care, lack of mental health services, astronomical rents and cost of living keeping women in abusive relationships. And on it goes. Given the circumstances, it's pretty brutal to vote Tory.

You're confusing socialism with collectivism, they are not the same thing

Japan is a capitalist country with a collective philosophy

A socialist economy with an individual philosophy results in abuse and corruption, you'll just get a lot of people sitting around drinking all day, businesses getting fat off the state while socialising their losses, and a lot of resentment rather than a fairer society. This has happened recently with our benefits system, the NHS and the bank bailouts.

Socialism worked well in the post war era because there was a cohesive society where people were willing to act with honesty and integrity for each other. They didn't abuse the benefits system or the NHS. It was shameful to be on the dole.

Similarly the reason it works better in places like Finland is because their population sizes are much smaller than ours and more cohesive, 5 million v 70 million. You wouldn't use the same principles for running a 5 person business as you would for a 70 person business.

At the moment I don't think it matters what socialist policies the UK implements as the societal fabric of the country currently isn't strong enough to support them without corruption. Labour are fixated on individualism and identity and have no sense of collectivism.

Ironically, only the far right are offering some elements of what you're asking for. Low immigration and a sense of national identity. I'm not a supporter of the far right btw and wouldn't advocate voting for them, I will vote Labour. But if you're expecting the UK to become a collective society via Labour you're quite a way off the mark.

I think my problem is that I can’t see how Labour will be any better and I can’t see how they will fund their apparent spending
increase and just at the moment my biggest worry is for my girls flying the nest and Labour not protecting them. To be honest Labour actively not protecting them because “men” have it worse. I’m afraid of it all being far worse than it is now 🥹😥😳

I can’t see how they will fund their apparent spending
increase

then you need to read their manifesto, it is fully costed.

@Proudtobeanortherner if you do read the IFS statement alongside it

Why do you think major donors who used to give to the Conservative party and big business are now donating to Labour? It is because Labours policies will build a strong economy. You need a strong economy to pay for public services.

The current conservative party show zero understanding of the economy and even less interest in it.

I advise those who believe that the Tories are the party of economic stability to watch Tim Harford’s documentary Skint: The Truth about Britain’s economy of Channel 4.

For me there are some issues that will always be in flux but that can be managed differently. So economics, healthcare, social policy etc can be shaped according to the party in power. It will always be so.

But changing the very definition and legal status of an entire sex class, half the population, is absolutely fundamental and likely to be irreversible. If you can’t keep a consistent definition of woman/girl/female then you can no longer describe us. You can’t count us in data, point at injustice and lack of equality and you can’t plan for change to effect us or define how and why we need different solutions.

That’s the difference for me, it’s a single issue that will never be reversible and impacts the rights of every woman, from cradle to grave. And Labour have been very clear that they do not want to define sex or protect it’s meaning or application as a characteristic.

Way back Conservatives were the party of economic stability. But that was the kind of conservatives like Ken Clarke who Boris Johnson threw out of the party.
The party now is no longer a friend of business and shows zero economic understanding or even interest in building a strong economy.
They are slash and burn asset strippers, stripping the UK economy for personal benefit.

@PowerTulle The conservatives had 14 years to change the legislation. They did not. Listen to what people do instead of what they say.

It's just the dying throes of the annoyed, OP.

It's not getting better whoever you vote for. There's no left wing party that won't take the same view as Labour and there's no viable right wing party.

@Melisha Who is proposing legislative change to the EqA?

And what is Labour proposing to do if a man with a GRC uses a public toilet at say, a train station. Or someone such as Eddie Izzard for that matter

Could you be explicit as you say you understand the law, and I haven’t seen an answer from anyone

@Melisha Just do some research into stonewall, stonewall teaching teacher on gender ideology and so on.
How many college and schools give stonewall money and then come back to and say whether more of that is a good thing.

I can only see eduction giving more to stonewall.

@EasternStandard if you do not want a change in law what do you want?