To think there's going to be a Civil War in America

[LaurieFairyCake]

I mean, they're fucked aren't they

Now that Trump isn't getting prosecuted after today for the January 6th atrocities

And Biden 🤦‍♀️ - they might replace him

It's so awful - so terribly polarised

I think it's a real possibility

The doors were not held open.

Pelosi was not responsible for security.

These are the facts.

Distorting them is what others are doing.

I don’t think pointing out that you were calling me names rather than responding to the point loses me any “high ground”. Whatever that means.

Nah no civil war. They've got the most militarised police force and National Guard in the world. That will tend to keep a lid on things.

Put it this way if BLM summer 2020, when people were actually setting whole swathes of cities on fire, didn't degenerate into civil war, then the election won't either.

Biden won't be on the ballot come November tho.

January 6th was much closer to a civil war than the BLM issues ( oh and remember the cases where it was far right groups that were setting things on fire there too).

Trump can do anything he likes now.

I disagree, because Jan 6 was concentrated in one area, as opposed to across the states, less infrastructure damage, one day as opposed to a month or so, fewer fatalities, and the BLM protesters were numerically superior and better armed.

I don't think there will be a civil war. If the US can get through Summer 2020 it can get through a Trump election.

Not that Trump will win. I firmly believe Biden will soon announce he's not standing and Michelle Obama (I hope!!!) will stand instead.

It was Jill Biden's statement to Vogue that convinced me of that. Michelle Obama might be just wishful thinking but if not, Amy Klobuchar or Gavin Newsome would both steamroll Trump.

What did Jill Biden say in Vogue?

I think sad that the next best option is someone that never held public office and clearly never wanted to do so since she’s never run before.

It’s also odd. I’m trying to imagine getting hired for my husband’s job just because I am married to him. I could I more do his job than he could do mine.

Jan 6th would have spread had it been allowed to. Had Trump managed to get his way there would have been far more than just the insurrection in Washington to deal with. One was nationwide, one was a direct attack on a democratic institution at a key point in the electoral process.

" BLM protesters were numerically superior and better armed."

The vast majority of BLM supporters were not armed, and despite the claims of Fox et al, the majoirty of protests passed peacefully ( about 93%).

The majority of Capitol rioters had some form of weapon, and there were bombs planted around the area.

@GiveMeSpanakopita

Tell me more about Newsome and why he’d be a good candidate to beat Trump?

Did he and Klobuchar both run before? For entertainment I’d love to see Hillary run again.

Zero possibility of an American civil war happening.

WW III more likely, but it won't happen in the Americas.

Oh, don't be so inzane.

The points are accurate.

Try countering?

She's on the cover of Vogue this month. After the debate debacle they called her for follow up comment and her statement was as follows:

Reached by phone on June 30 at Camp David, where the Biden family had gathered for the weekend, she told Vogue that they “will not let those 90 minutes define the four years he’s been president. We will continue to fight.” President Biden, she added, “will always do what’s best for the country.”

Read that last sentence with your political spin radar turned on and you'll see it clearly gives Biden wriggle room to stand aside 'for the best of the country'.

Obama's circle hates Biden, always has. They'll convince him to step aside. Well, not him, but Jill and Hunter, they're the ones that need convincing. That'll be hard. And the donations are non-transferable. But if they come up with a good enough alternate, the donors might be persuaded otherwise and go to an open convention.

Michelle Obama - no need to explain this one.
Newsom - ok he made a mess of California. But he inherited a mess. He's a proper liberal democrat, looks presidential, has been positioning himself as potential candidate for a long time, has lots of backers
Klobuchar - Moderate liberal, great track record, nice folksy demeanor for midwesterners

They're not accurate, and I can't enter a discussion with you because I only like talking with people who are reasonable and capable of understanding the importance of empirical evidence when having a debate.

They are accurate.

The police didn't hold the doors open.

Pelosi didn't control the security.

Now you are showing that you can't actually back your claims.

I have.

Solid points, all.

I don’t think Michelle will run. I don’t think either of the Obama’s wants to go back to Washington. I do think he must be livid with Biden.

Things look truly awful in California. I don’t think middle America will go for someone who has been presiding over that mess.

I vaguely remember Klobuchar. Going to check her out.

Some have mentioned Pete Butigieg. Haven’t heard much about him lately.

On the R side, I doubt they can or would do anything about Trump. He has too much money and popularity at this point.

I think everyone must be yearning for the moderates of the past on both sides. Any one of the candidates that lost in the past 30 years would be better than these options. (Obviously dead or too old now.)

It's an absolute farce that Biden is running. 72% of the American public don't think he has it in him to be President and the longer it takes for him to step down, the more likely Trump will succeed. He must be laughing his arse off.

Samesies. I’ll talk all day to someone with whom I disagree and always learn something if they actually bother talking and listening rather than… the alternative. Actually would rather discuss with someone from a different viewpoint that than have full agreement.

But they haven't tried to develop a point to counter what was said?

Ah that's great.

So what did you learn, then, from me telling you about Ashli Babbitt?

(I ask as you didn't appear to know anything about her death and believed Capitol police held doors open for the insurrectionists.)

Ah, they're one of those.

Butigieg's been a bit quiet lately. He's come under a lot of fire on transportation - train derailments, plane problems - a lot of it's not his fault because US infrastructure is so degraded but it'll still be blamed on him.

Another one to watch is Gretchen Whitmer! Really solid liberal track record on protecting union rights, shoring up abortion rights, and stricter gun control. She's a do-er. And she doesn't suffer fools gladly, I think she would wipe the floor with Trump in a debate. I'd love it if she ran.

Agreed. But there's no point trying to talk to people who don't live in reality. Just a waste of time and effort. You have to dumb down your argument so much and even then they don't engage, they just get aggro. It's boring. As a veteran of internet 1.0 messageboards, I learned that a long time ago the hard way!

I think there's a few challenges to overcome to get a new Dem candidate:

1. Persuade the Biden family to stand Joe down
2. Hold an open convention in August - but the Dem convention has been so stage managed for so long - but I think technically in the rulebook they can still do this
3. Hardest one - get the big donors to make their non-transferable donations to Biden, transferable. Biden is not a candidate of the people, he's a candidate of the Dem donors. If a really strong case could be made for one of the others I mentioned...but it's a big hill to climb

I honestly think all the reporting of the Obama camp's involvement is what will swing it, they still have so much power and respect and they can't stand Biden. Now they know how bad things really are with him, if anyone can swing it, they can.

I think we're in for an interesting six months!

She’s as likeable as Hillary is and can be quite polarizing.

The real story is that the Democrats don’t have a candidate that could beat Trump according to the polls… all of the names floated here have matched up on par with Biden. https://www.newsweek.com/gretchen-whither-chances-beating-trump-poll-1919211

I tend to ignore polls for the most part so who know if this is realistic or not… but I tend to think it’s probably true. And that Biden at least brings money and his incumbency to the party. Otherwise the Democrats would have dropped him like a hot potato

Started to reply to this then lost it.

Because you mentioned Babbitt I went and read about her. I did hear about it before but couldn’t remember. Of course anyone climbing through broken windows was committing a criminal and crazy act.

Look like this happened 4 hours after the first people entered through the doors, which were being held open by Capitol police long enough for the video to be taken. It’s a public building and you don’t need an appointment or ticket to enter. I think even being there was truly nuts, but can imagine someone who would go there walking through the doors if they were being open like that. Thinking it was legal to do so, because it is generally legal to enter public buildings in the US including the Capitol.

It doesn’t make everything that happened OK, and surely many of those people committed very obviously illegal and destructive acts.

But do you not wonder why the doors were held open like that even for a few minutes? I’ve toured that Capitol and been in several State capitols, also. There was never a door held open this way, nor a public entry without armed security and a metal detector.

It’s refreshing to read your perspective which is obviously a well-informed one.

I wonder if the Clintons hold any sway now. Thoughts?