Sister stole her flatmate’s deposit

[Huhy]

Sister just completed her final year at university in London.

Sister lived with an international student in a one bed flat - they converted living room for 2nd bedroom in Central London. They were friends and course mates prior to living together. Sister had an absolute nightmare with this flatmate but I think it is no excuse. So sister and flatmate got an email saying that only £400 of their deposit was being returned due to the state the flat was left in. Sister left the flat in March, tenancy ended in June. Sister left to come home as she was very stressed with dissertation and exams/sick of flatmate. Before she left she completely cleaned her bedroom. She agreed with flatmate to go halves on an end of tenancy clean.

Landlord came back and said the carpet in her flatmates room and her bed were ruined and therefore needed replacing. Sister texted friend saying well seeing as that is all your stuff, I think I’m entitled to the full remaining deposit. Flatmate said no, we’ll split. My sister was distraught as she took care of her room and the common areas as she knew she needed the deposit for her masters.

When I say my sister lived with a pig I am not exaggerating. Sister sent us pictures of their kitchen after she returned from Easter. The ENTIRE floor in their small kitchen had piled up bags of takeaway bags. It was shocking. Flatmate paid for a cleaner to pick up her shit. The other girl also had difficulty turning off the shower and would just leave it - causing damage to the flat below. Another time my sister picked up a towel that had been on the floor in bathroom for weeks and the other girl replied with “haha I can’t believe you touched that, that was a cum towel”. She would also routinely make my sister go with her to get the morning after pill whilst on her period - always thought she was pregnant. Trust me I know her being a nightmare does not justify theft.

Anyway sister figured out that their deposit had not been secured as she questioned the LL’s ability to unilaterally take whatever amount he wanted. The other girl was happy to walk away from the lost deposit. My sister told landlord to pay both deposits into her account as her flatmate has shut hers down. Well that was a lie.

Sister was immature and rubbed it in her flatmates face that she had her money. The flatmate has gone back to her home country (very well off). I got a message from the girl asking me to help. I’m shocked my sister acted this way, very uncharacteristic. Sister in fact has actually given the money to another friend who was struggling to pay her last month’s rent (I have seen texts and bank statements as evidence of this).

Im at a loss. Pleas tell me what to do!

I agree.

Your sister has acted fraudulently and obtained money by deception when she told the LL to pay BOTH deposits into her own account.

Did they have individual tenancies, or once pay the entire rent and the other then pay their half?

Technically the housemate should be suing the LL for not returning her deposit if there was no permission to refund the deposit to your sister. The LL would then have to sue your sister to get the money back.

Legally, there is 6 years to chase this debt. If the housemate contacts the police then your sister might end up with a criminal record, so I'd tell her to pay the money back ASAP before housemate goes to the police.

So then she can lodge the claim.

You say you're parentified due to speaking English on behalf of your parents. So could flatmate.

Block her it's nothing to do with you. She's an adult you can't make her do anything.

What help does the sister want?

What help does the op want to give?

I've not read any help asked for by sister or offered by op.

Only the sister saying she's not giving money, ex flatmate can sue if she wants and she's drawing a line under it
And op saying sister is morally wrong and should pay, and later messaging sister and ex flatmate, washing her hands of the whole thing.

Non of your business.
Don't you have your own life to get on with?

I think there's not much to be done about this situation if the sister has taken the action she has and is digging her heels in.

But, going forward, I think the OP's parents should make it clear that they strongly disagree with the notion of stealing as a somehow morally justifiable act in certain circumstances. The fact that the flatmate was an untidy nightmare is irrelevant. It was still stealing. The fact that the money was given away to a friend in need is irrelevant. It was still stealing. In whatever language is preferable they should impress upon their daughter that what she did was not morally acceptable. The parents are still in a position of being able to guide their daughter even if she is nominally grown up - it's not too late to change attitudes and minimise the chances of something of a similar nature happening in the future.

It is not up to the OP to take responsibility for how things pan out though.

Honestly I think I would
Tell the girl that dsis has simply remedied the situation in a way that is fair. Deductions were solely as a result of her filth. There is evidence.
You will not get further involved. Stop harassing you and parents
Block her on everything.

Just keep out of it @Huhy - it's nothing to do with you. You and your parents have both told her your opinions / possible consequences. That's all you can do. Block ex-housemate from your social media.

Your sister was really bloody stupid and immature for gloating to her ex-housemate about getting her deposit; but she also showed some tenacity for obtaining the deposit back from the dodgy LL - so good on her for that.

Personally I probably would have given ex-housemate £200 back and kept the rest as it would be highly unlikely the 3 parties would be in contact every again.

She's not going to further pursue the LL whom she lied to in order to get both her full £1200 back for her master's deposit AND flatmate's £1200. Sounds like she's got a "Robin Hood" logic going on - taking the extra £1200 that (in her eyes) the rich pig would have got for doing sweet FA and giving it to a skint friend in need. This vengeful reasoning is no doubt justified in her head by the fact that filthy flatmate was happy to see the sister lose £1000 of the deposit she needed for her masters... hence her doing the insanely stupid thing of telling the flatmate what she'd done! There is a sense to her actions, even though they are not sensible.

It makes no difference at all that she gave it to a friend. It wasn’t hers to give. (Anyway, I thought you said your sister needed it?)

The facts are that your sister stole the money and could be liable to prosecution. If she wants to be a thief and risk prosecution it’s up to her. She’s an adult. If your parents want to try to influence her, or give her some money to help her pay it back, that’s up to them. Tell your parents you will tell your sister she should give the money back, but after that it is nothing to do with you. Keep out of it.

Stop involving yourself block the flatmate on all social media , this is not your problem or your parents

Nothing to do with them.
Nothing to do with you.
Nothing to delegate.
Your sister is an adult.

Block block block.

No one will give you any other advice. There is nothing you could or should do here.

I fully agree with your sister the flatmate is the reason most of the deposit was kept. Block her on all social media. The likelihood of her spending probably more than the amount to fly back to the country to sort this out is slim

Oh actually I re-read, i though it was a total of 400, now it's a larger amount I'm on the fence.....she really shouldn't have rubbed it in her face
Just block and stay out of it

Your sister is over 18, she’s an adult. Tell your parents it’s her issue to sort out, not yours, not theirs. End of.

"taking the extra £1200 that (in her eyes) the rich pig would have got for doing sweet FA" -> She wouldn't have got it. It was hers in the first place! She paid it to the LL at the start of the tenancy.

Plus, the girl PAID to hire a cleaner ("Flatmate paid for a cleaner to pick up her shit"). I don't think the fact that the girl had bad habits is THAT relevant here. OP's DS can't just take money as compensation/karma for the experience of living with her.

Looks like the only material damage relevant to the deposit was the carpet and bed. Firstly, the LL's original plan was to dock £2000 for a carpet (the size of a London room so basically the area of a tiny hamster cage) and probably a shitty Ikea bed.

That already sounds shady and is something both flatmates should have contested together. LL gives in because LL was obviously trying their luck in the first place like many Central Landlord LLs I've encountered.

(I've also noticed that having foreign names on the lease – Chinese intl student here – often means large amounts of the deposit are unreasonably withheld even when I consciously try to keep things immaculate.)

Anyway, then OP's sister decides to take the full £2400 and GIVE half of it away to a friend? Putting aside how bizarre that is, why could she not have docked & kept the original £1200 and returned the flatmate £200? She's confiscated even MORE than the LL originally wanted to, so this crosses the line from mere justice into additional revenge, profitting off the girl.

Basically OP's DS originally paid £1200 for the deposit and has now walked away with £2400. So she's taken £1200 extra as "payment" for having to live with the girl apparently. One's a slob, the other's a thief.

Imo the latter is worse but anyway OP should butt out.

Stop being a sticky beak.

OP's sister didn't lose any of her deposit. She got both hers AND the flatmate's deposit back. Basically she profited by a 4 figure sum.

Do people really think a carpet in a tiny room and a bed was worth £2000? Was it a 4 poster Victorian bed with a handwoven horse hair carpet in the heart of Mayfair?

Yes the flatmate was annoying but she paid to hire a cleaner. Obviously the landlord was trying it on, and rightly gave up once called out.

OP's DS' theft is pure emotional revenge, rather than karma or justice.

Tbh the flatmate should chase the landlord - he had no right to pay her deposit elsewhere

Thats a cock-up

The OPs sister is then likely to get away with it still as the Ll isn’t likely to chase for the money back if they skipped the deposit scheme.

That's awful, you must all be so disappointed with your sister. Not much you can though, so you've made the right choice.

You don’t seem to have had any problem being forthright with people on this thread when they’ve suggested your posts are hard to understand (or when they’ve said anything you don’t like). So why can’t you apply this same bullishness to the situation?

Tell your sister that your parents are very worried and that she needs to have a proper conversation with them about it, because you’re not playing go-between. Tell your parents that you understand they’re worried, but that your sister is a grown woman who has to make her own mistakes, and that you have no control over her actions. Tell the flatmate that you are not your sister’s representative and will not be liaising with her or commenting on this any further. Then block.

You're wasting your time telling everyone on here that they’re stupid when you could actually put that same approach to good use in the very situation you’re complaining about.

Your sister had a moral obligation, not you

You and your parents should not get involved unless your sister directly asks you to do. And even then you don't take over, but advise. Otherwise you're setting up a pattern of behaviour of meddling in your sisters life and being controlling which will not be healthy or productive in the long-term
.

All you need to do is butt out. None of your business. Block the girl or message her you are not involved and that it is for her to take whatever steps necessary to resolve the situation. Then step away and myob. This girl is no innocent anyway. It is her fault that the deposit was retained and actually although your sister was wrong in her method why should she be penalised for something she had no control over?