To think that too many people are in denial that they should not drive?

[Onomatofear]

I hear about countless examples of elderly people or people with health problems getting behind the wheel of a car when they shouldn't be. Why do they do it?

I remember my dh's granddad doing it. Now it's my dad. He's 78 and can barely walk without falling over and he refuses to accept that he shouldn't be on the road. About 6 months ago, he accidentally drove over a pedestrian island thinking it was an actual road. I pointed out to my mum that him being old wouldn't count as a defence. She still gets in the car with him(!)

And before you say why don't I report him, it's easy to say but I've reported someone before for the same sort of thing and he figured out it was me and went mad at me. It's even more difficult to report your own parent.

I agree. I also think black boxes should be mandatory for all new drivers for the first three years.

The real solution for this, and many other problems caused by aging is to prepare properly. Move house, before it's too hard to do so, live in suitable accommodation with easy access to services. Get rid of the car sooner rather than later, walk to services that are close (because you moved house). Use a mobility scooter if you have to. Aging and mental and physical decline are a reality (take note Joe Biden) and the only alternative is dying young, which none of us want. Being prepared and realistic will not only make our own lives easier but those around us lives easier.

I totally agree with all this.

So many people think about retiring to the sea or to the countryside, but they don't think about being able to access the necessities as they get older and less mobile.

Luckily both my parents and DH's have been incredibly sensible, and all live within walking (or mobility scooting!) distance from the GP, optician, dentist, shops and chemists, as well as near decent public transport. Of course DH and I help when we can but the reality is we both work full-time and can't always take time off during the week for appointments.

We have taken FIL to the hospital a few times recently for scans etc. which we're more than happy to do, but he does everything else himself and would hate to have that freedom taken away from him.

I do think that living somewhere you can easily stay connected is important. My mother lived in a detached house at the end of a culdesac in a semi rural suburb. Fine as long as she was willing and able to drive but very difficult when she stopped. I am sure it contributed to her mental decline. I live five minutes walk away from a busy street with shops, cafe pub etc and bus stops.

Not the point of the thread..ftr i agree with you and stopped my mom driving at 70-ish. she still has her car, i just drive it for her (chauffer service, get her)

however, small niggle about the "can barely walk without falling over" comment.

Not being able to walk is not a reason to stop driving. I'm an ambulatory wheelchair user.. i also use a cane, i "can barely walk without falling over" but i'm a very experienced, competent, safe driver, tyvm. (i even drive on race tracks).

because the physical functions of driving a car, and walking, are two very different movement/motions and create very different stresses and strains on the joints, ligaments, muscles and nerves.

Also, driving an automatic car requires even less physical input than a manual.

Would you think the same if you saw a younger person get out the car and then get a wheelchair out the boot and zoom off in it?

Good on North Wales police.
No one has the right to be a risk to others.
The should ask a few cognitive screening questions at the same time!
Our elderly neighbour had terrible memory issues which she totally denied. She was also a drinker (long pub lunches with her friends) and had several minor road accidents. We did report her as she was a complete liability.

I think it's odd to equate driving with independence so much.

DH doesn't drive due to a medical condition. He's very much independent. Admittedly he's never been able to so he never gave anything up, but it's ridiculous to suggest you're no longer independent. As if people with medical conditions preventing driving are all just sitting around waiting for others to do things for them.

And even if it is a loss of independence - that's not actually a reason to keep doing it. No one would think my DH was reasonable for getting behind the wheel because he wants independence.

Well my mum, who didn't want to give up driving, sent me out on some errands in her car when I was staying. These included

shopping at Tescos
get a prescription (but not at Tescos because they'd made here wait once, or something)
get cash from cashpoint (a mile from Tescos, because sometimes that one would give you fivers
get stamps
fill her car with petrol
then pick her up from the hairdressers

Her errands would not be possible without a car, she'd have had to reorganise her whole life and forget about past annoyances from Tescos pharmacy lol. I didn't get them all completed in the time ("Well I'd rather have had the stamps than X, I really needed those" ), and didn't get a receipt for the petrol as the machine wasn't working properly. When I mentioned I'd got the petrol at Tescos, she said, "Why did you go there? I always get it from Blah Garage."

Yes it does, My mum was telling me how much it now costs to insurance them both and that it had jumped. So clearly people of this age do have more accidents. It was then that I said dad shouldn't even be driving.

I don't think it's remotely odd.

I didn't drive until my late twenties and, without exaggerating, my life improved massively overnight. All of a sudden I could just hop into a car and go wherever I wanted, whenever I wanted. I was no longer reliant on other people, or on waiting around for buses and trains just to get to the shops.

If you've never driven, you don't know what you're missing out on so it's not really a comparable situation, IMO.

I also never said it was a reason to keep doing it I said it was understandable that people didn't want to stop driving and that it's very easy to say "well, I'd happily give up my car" when you're not actually in that situation yourself.

Not having my car would massively impact on my life. I can take myself, my mom, and my kids to all our medical appointments, i can visit my friends all over the uk, i can go anywhere, at any time.

Being disabled and having a wheelchair/walking stick i'm dependent on, not having my car would be a disaster.. when was the last time you tried using a wheelchair on a bus or train? Or getting in/out of a taxi with one?

Just because your DH isn't impacted, doesn't mean it wouldn't seriously impact on other people.. how very narrow minded.

AKA Motor normativity

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/17/motonormativity-britons-more-accepting-driving-related-risk

Thats what we need to challenge

That's for speeding which folks over a certain age don't do

One of the mums at school a few years ago was a thalidomide baby. Her specially adapted vehicle meant that she could get her children to a special needs school, get her wheelchair in and out on her owne

I hit 66 state pension age my insurance jumped £100. I've 45 years no claims. It's a logarithm, nothing personal. It's a bloody cheek though.

@JohnofWessex do we or do we need to be less afraid of risk?

😂😂😂 I don't give a monkeys where I get fuel.

But living in Wales, buses are erratic, cancelled on a whim. I'd have to walk three miles to get one. Taxis since COVID have dried up, they won't leave the burbs because of costs. Our taxi firm just can't get drivers, they're all doing evri, DPD.

Son in Leeds at university had an Uber app. Four minutes from ordering to a taxi outside the restaurant. I was open mouthed at the speed.

But the impact on your life of not having a car is not a justification for driving should your health deteriorate.
I have a degenerative condition and had to advise the DVLA when diagnosed. Every three years I have to reapply for my licence. Currently my driving is unaffected but I am very aware of the nature of my health condition that I am going to have to stop driving in the future. This will impact my life massively but that won’t stop me surrendering my licence as if I were responsible for someone being injured or worse killed I couldn’t bear it.

A black box is of course not just for speeding. It monitors the way the car is driven, including heavy braking.

Heavy breaking 😂😂 we're mostly 20mph here occasionally reaching the giddy heights of 30 mph for about 300 yards. From my house 2 miles into town. I go from 20 to 40, back to 20, then 30, then 20.

Yep I'm in Wales.

But the impact on your life of not having a car is not a justification for driving should your health deteriorate.

Nobody's saying that.

What they're saying is that it's really hard to ask people to give up their freedom and independence, especially when lots of elderly people believe they're far more capable than they are.

100% agree.

One person who believes he is more capable than he probably is sits in the White House, as an example, not that he is driving a car.

Well, exactly.

It's really easy to say "well, I'd happily give my license up if I was eighty" when you're only 35 and are otherwise perfectly fit and healthy, and can happily walk everywhere, navigate the train/bus with no issues, etc.

FWIW I do think there are lots of elderly people out there who shouldn't drive, but I don't think it's as easy to get them to stop as people are making it out to be.