To feel poor even though we earn well?

[erte]

We live in London and have to for our jobs. Even though we earn what most people would consider a very good household income, maybe top 5% nationally, we still feel poor.

Yes we can afford rent but can’t afford much more than a one bed and save. Whereas if you told me 10 years ago how much I would earn, I’d have imagined a far more comfortable existence.

Good grief some of these answers are shameful . An all out pile on. 80k joint income is not high in London. They are not rich. Yes many people are poor, and yes she used the wrong word. But she won’t have much left over after child care and rent, and the point she’s making is she expected to feel much wealthier on that household income.

she’s not saying many people don’t have it harder. It isn’t a race to the bottom.

If you are a high earner but "feel poor" you need to shift your attitude. You are not poor, but you think you should have more. It feels unfair? Whereas there are people earning a fraction of your salary who are happy to have roof over their heads and can afford the weekly shop, maybe a take away or a day trip with the kids in the holidays and they feel grateful and happy to be able to do these things. Constantly feeling resentful that you don't have what you feel entitled to will do you no favours. Work on your attitude.

I guess a better definition of poverty might be to look at what's left after unavoidable outgoings.

She never said 80k joint income. She quite clearly put herself in the top 5%.

Where do you live in London and what does your 1 bed flat cost a month to rent?

Average income is £30k

Op is on double the average.

Minimum wage income for 40 hours is about £24k
Op Is on way more.

"Poor" does not mean "has money and spends it all"

Poor means not being able to afford housing, food, education, health. Basically the basic needs anyone should be able to have, holidays, cars, eating out are not basic needs.

You are not rich/wealthy; but you are not poor either

I get you OP. And you don't deserve the grief you're getting, it's not like your hard up because you spend all your money on champagne, it's being eaten up by essentials.

When I was young I will have earned a lot less than you, worked a lot less hard than you, and had a lot more cash and wealth accumulated than you. I also lived in London and was able to buy a one bed flat in zone one, on my minimum wage job. This is simply because I'm older. Housing and childcare are massive issues in this country and are crippling even people who earn well. We need an absolutely massive council house building programme. Unfortunately, people my age, all sitting pretty, block any planning applications. We are a very powerful voting lobby as well and so no government dare piss us off.
I'm sorry it's so shit for younger people OP.

I guess a better definition of poverty might be to look at what's left after unavoidable outgoings.

Yes, you can be in the top 10% of earners but that doesn’t mean you are in the same % when you allow for housing costs due to the massive inequality there. Who is going to feel more comfortable, my retired neighbour who was a teacher and as a BTL plus no mortgage on their expensive property or my other neighbours who earn more as doctors but are renting & paying childcare?

Poor means not being able to afford housing, food, education, health. Basically the basic needs anyone should be able to have, holidays, cars, eating out are not basic needs.

Is secure housing a basic need?

You only end up with massive housing costs if you chose to buy in particular area

If you chose to live where people on average incomes lived you would be rolling in it

But you make a choice and you can only spend each penny once

Grief - that people can earn so much and understand so little

Agree. It's a shame that working hard in stressful careers where you've studied, taken risks etc is only enough to get by.

It's also a shame that working hard in minimum wage/ average jobs isn't enough to get by & people still need benefits and help.

IMO, working FT in any job should mean enough to get by (not necessarily holidays but run 1 cheap car, enough food etc). And working FT in higher demand jobs should mean you can afford the odd luxury (extra bedroom or a holiday abroad or a second car).

Unfortunately we are in a bit of a downward spiral where tax is so high (to support those who don't earn enough), so people retire early/work less, so tax on everyone else has to keep going up, etc etc

You only end up with massive housing costs if you chose to buy in particular area

More to do with age tbh.

If you chose to live where people on average incomes lived you would be rolling in it

Areas with lower housing costs tend to have lower wages.

why should certain areas be only for rich people? That’s not particularly practical for the rest of society.

I don’t think you feel poor, I think you feel not-rich. Or nowhere-near-as-rich-as-you-thought-you-would-on-that-income.

So you feel you’ve been fed a lie.

Inflation messes with your perceptions of your salary too. £100,000 today is the equivalent of £60,000 in 2009, and you probably pay a greater % of tax now. And London house prices. Obviously £60k in 2009 was very good but you might have thought you’d be living a very different life on £100k.

And sometimes the situation is made worse because you know you earn well so won’t say no to a team drink after work (£50 for a round before you know it), spend more than you should at Christmas, a £200+ birthday party for your kids etc.

I get this as well. Managed to buy a one bedroom starter home on my own salary of £14,500 in the 90s,
The younger generation have well and truly been shafted. I really feel for them, it’s shit

For those of you not concerned, it's the direction of travel that should be a concern.

If the super rich do jobs earning only 400k but hold millions in assets that can't be taxed where does the tax to pay for schools and health care come from?

Do you have Sky TV though?

I get you OP. Sadly the 'race to the bottom' is becoming a theme across MN on every post these days. If you're not on the bones of your arse, don't complain. Suck it up. Be grateful. Carry on paying tax to fund everyone else and if you don't like it leave. Sigh.

For those of you not concerned, it's the direction of travel that should be a concern.

Thats the bit I don’t understand. We have an ageing population, public services in decline, schools closing due to big drops in birth rates. Working needs to pay.

😂

How do you define ‘basic bitch’? £200k is super-wealthy. Do you know what some people live on in London? I rent a family home as a lone parent (no childcare costs now) and earn a fraction of that. I’ve never owned a car (unnecessarily and expensive) or taken annual holidays (too expensive). I don’t have a tv. I don’t even have a freezer in this rental. I rarely go out for drinks or buy new clothes.

But I don’t consider myself at all poor. We eat very well (no meat) and can afford the bills. We dress well. We have lots of interesting and kind friends and neighbours. We have the whole of this wonderful city to explore, where it’s possible to be out all day having fantastic experiences for the cost of a bus fare and packed lunch. I consider myself very lucky and blessed. I work with people who are living in grinding poverty.

There's a huge difference between "race to the bottom" and complaining that you feel poor in the OP situation.

So much is down to choices & the order you do things but the reality is that someone who is actually poor doesn't have any choices.
My child spoke about getting a dog, my response not until you own your own home (mortgaged) as it is an expense that takes away from saving for a deposit & as rent is more than a mortgage you wait until after. The same goes for children & childcare costs stop you saving so if you have young children while you rent your outgoings can be astronomical. So you wait.
I get that life can throw curve balls (I never expected to be widowed in my early 40's) & some can be hard to financially recover from.
But this has always been the case & it hasn't changed. When my children were small we didn't have savings & we didn't pay into pensions either - we also didn't have debts other than the mortgage. We only had 1 day off together every 5 weeks to keep our childcare costs down to 3 days per week. Did we have spare money - No, but were we poor definitely NOT

I get it, and I get it as someone who grew up in actual poverty. We were lucky that we never came under the radar of social services. Our household income is 80k. I do not feel rich.

This!!!! In London if feels like without generational wealth it’s incredibly difficult even on the higher salary. We have a household income of 260k in London…..and definitely not the lifestyle to go along with it! It’s just a fact, it is what it is……we chose to live in London so just gotta suck it up.