To feel poor even though we earn well?

[erte]

We live in London and have to for our jobs. Even though we earn what most people would consider a very good household income, maybe top 5% nationally, we still feel poor.

Yes we can afford rent but can’t afford much more than a one bed and save. Whereas if you told me 10 years ago how much I would earn, I’d have imagined a far more comfortable existence.

Totally get it OP, we earn fairly well and yet I'm constantly watching the budget. We're about to move and increase our mortgage but to a much better area for our young kids so things will be tighter again! Our friends seem convinced we must be rolling in it, we really aren't!

Please don't use the word poor unless you are on the bones of your arse.

Do you have enough money for your next meal?
Are you missing meals to feed your children?
Are you going to food banks or relying on your children's school to provide free uniform?
If you aren't you aren't poor.
Get out of London.

I mean you aren’t poor. Poor and not having enough disposable income is 2 different things.

and to be honest, there’s no context. You could both be earning 120k plus each and choosing to live in a particularly expensive part of London. In which case you have choices to move to another cheaper part of London. You have the money to be able to do that.

That’s not poor.

Poor? Oh purlease.
Are your childcare costs high? Give us a list of your expenses. Not saving? Nice holidays? Are you both on good incomes? Are you trying to save for a mortgage deposit?

It's different for us because we are older, mortgage coming to an end, but childcare bills weren't an issue because I worked part time initially, we always had nice holidays but the cheapest abroad one we could find, we always lived well. Now we are paying ds1 monthly to support him in uni.

What are you spending that you could cut?

I think you taint your own life with your attitude.

You live in one of the best cities in the world, filled with art and creativity, architecture and history. Free parks and museums.

You earn well, have a career, opportunities. You wake up every day, knowing what you will eat, what you will wear, how you will pay the bills. You have a life partner to share it with.

No doubt your standard of living is comfortable - coffees and takeaways. New clothes. Gym membership, entertainment subscriptions. A holiday every year, probably abroad. The freedom to take it.

If you cannot recognise your own wealth, then IMO, the only problem is you are silly and spoilt. The reason you 'feel poor' is you don't have the sense to recognise how good life is.

Mumsnet always says ‘move to a cheaper area’ while completely ignoring the fact that if everyone did that then the ‘cheaper’ areas would become more expensive (supply and demand) pricing even more people out of housing.

So yeah, clever advice as always.

Maybe you're cherry picking responses because the general message to OP has been to recognise their own privilege which I think is fair enough tbh

Poor choice of words OP. I can only assume you haven't actually ever been poor, or if you have then you've forgotten the reality of it.

Cost of housing is ridiculous. Past generations didn't have that.

Cost of groceries and energy / utilities has shot up too.

The other stuff is lifestyle creep though. New cars on finance, Netflix subscriptions, casual dining and takeaways every week.

Back in the day there were a lot of things that just didn't exist so you couldn't spend on them, now they're normalised and it's just another drain.

I am with you OP, working your tits off to climb the career ladder only to be left watching the ladder getting rungs cut off from under you. So you're watching your finances sliding back down towards living hand to mouth. We have never yet got out of the hand to mouth experience despite both having middle management jobs now. I am hopeful that once youngest is in school we will see a difference. But the mortgage rate will expire 3 months later so we are likely going to pay 000s more from that point. It will likely negate the nursery money completely. I am trying not to dwell on it too much as it's out of our control.

It's upsetting.

Well not really because you can earn a lot of money and have a lot of outgoings that you can't just not pay for. Or you can be a low earner and have low housing costs and more disposable income and therefore afford more. My son is a high earner and can only afford a studio flat. Like the OP, he needs to live in London.

Sorry if this has been already said but you don't 'have' to live in London, other people commute you know?

I actually don't live in London but still experience the same. Genuinely 2 weeks into the month every month I'm really struggling. By the end of the month yes I struggle to feed my family. No luxuries. I earn 65k.

A few years ago I worked with a lady that was constantly pleading poverty, we earned the same salary. My situation was as a single mother with 3 children, she had no children and a partner earning a 3 figure salary. I was definitely scraping by, but neither of us had money to spend at the end of each month. The doesn’t mean she was poor but that she and the partner had a massive home to run, ate out 3/4 times a week, would buy anything they wanted at the beginning of the month (new clothes, new technology). It’s quite crass to plead poverty when the truth is, you have an excellent wage but can’t/won’t budget at all.

But commuting costs are very high and can make it not worth it.

Housing costs are a national scandal. I can’t fathom why it’s not much more of a prominent election issue. The only reason I can afford to live where I do is because I was born at a time before prices went crazy. God knows what my dc will do.

Without knowing all of anyone's expenses it's impossible to conclude why they're struggling.
It's not necessarily true of you, but many struggle because of bad budgeting as opposed to lack of sufficient income. A lot of MNers have absolutely no idea of what poor actually means. They are just having less luxuries than before or than they thought they might have.

Exactly. I am the same and it's only because I'm older and got on the housing ladder in the 90s that I can afford either rent or a mortgage and still live. Also, when my children were younger it was unusual for a child to be in full time nursery, you could count on one hand the ones that were. Because housing costs were affordable enough to not need two full time wages.

@BakedTattie I'm not claiming to know anything about your family, but the fact you've entered a higher tax bracket doesn't make sense in being able to afford less. You're still earning more money than before.

Would like to know more about the 'save' bit. Because if you're saving anything at all you're no where near poor and shouldn't have used the word.

With you OP. We are in a similar situation. We had an amazing lifestyle years ago & now definitely not living the life we’d envisaged.

So what happened?
What can you charge?
'Not living an amazing lifestyle' doesn't mean you are necessarily 'poor'.

Why do you need to live in London? Many of my friends commute into London; accountant, nurse, manager. It takes 40 mins from a home county.

I don't know your circumstances or age but I'd be do anything to get out of renting. I'd rent somewhere cheap but commutable (Medway?) for a few years and save for a deposit. Most people's monthly payments go down as soon as they have a mortgage obviously with long term advantages. Renting in London long term doesn't sound like a good plan. There are also jobs outside of London.

You were very privileged to live an "amazing" lifestyle, most of the world just get by. Perhaps your expectations are too high.

I agree with you so much. Everything is so expensive.

I’ve really adjusted my lifestyle since the pandemic. I’ve cut back on all personal expenses