To feel poor even though we earn well?

[erte]

We live in London and have to for our jobs. Even though we earn what most people would consider a very good household income, maybe top 5% nationally, we still feel poor.

Yes we can afford rent but can’t afford much more than a one bed and save. Whereas if you told me 10 years ago how much I would earn, I’d have imagined a far more comfortable existence.

I've read the words on your posts, as you wrote them.
Also, every word, including poor, does have a definition.
I've not jumped to any conclusions or realised anything was wrong. 🤣

Huh? It’s not really my responsibility to help the OP express themselves better. They’ve given no detail, no context. They asked no question, they’ve posed no particular problem. How the hell am I supposed to know what they should have said to be more accurate? I only know - like most of the people posting here saying the same thing - that they expressed themselves “poorly” by using the word “poor”. Poor means something pretty dramatic and conjours up a particular set of circumstances for the vast majority of the people reading this, some of whom will be experiencing those things themselves.

Being within the top 5% of earners means it is vanishingly unlikely that the OP could possibly be experiencing anything like these circumstances, even in perception (rather than reality) only.

Thank you for such a true and eloquent post. I have lived this life, gone hungry to feed my child, worn boots that leak, padded my knickers with toilet paper because I had run out of tampons and could not afford to buy any more, staying in bed to keep warm, not being able to afford the school photo or the school trip and feeling a shame that eats into your very soul.

Ok, let's hear the factual definition of poor that everyone on the planet, including people who have no access to clean water or healthcare, would agree on.

And yeah, you absolutely jumped to a conclusion. You didn't like the way I described people, including myself when I was poor, being possessive about terminology. Then you filled in some silly blanks from there.

I also work with a young woman who is always 'boomer bashing' and complaining about the near impossibility of young people getting on the property ladder but she's just returned from a two week holiday in Japan and is already planning a trip to Bali as her next holiday...

Will stopping her holidays make home ownership possible?

I had a 6 fig deposit for my first property, if I had to save that all myself house prices would have run too far away from me.

I did none of what you claim. 🤣
In short, poor is not being able to meet your day to day needs in order to live. OP is not that.

What you did none of there was proving your claim about the definition of the word poor. What's the generally agreed on meaning that wouldn't have the bottom billion disagreeing if they read it? Since that's the whole basis of your argument, it needs backing up.

Interest rates have been artificially low for around the last 14 years. They are not high and are now at a very average normal level. It’s obvious the pain is inflated house prices.

London has always had ridiculously high house prices, I remember when myself and my friend were buying, it was 1999 the year the minimum wage was introduced. Her tiny one bed flat in London with no outside space cost 50k, you could buy a small house where I lived for 19k. Minimum wage was 3.60 per hour which based on a 36 hour week would be just over 6.7k. So where we lived 2 people on min wage could afford one of the small terraces. They now sell for 120k with min wage now being 26k so still affordable here. This is an ex mining town and it’s pretty tough for lots of reasons.

Huh? It’s not really my responsibility to help the OP express themselves better. They’ve given no detail, no context. They asked no question, they’ve posed no particular problem. How the hell am I supposed to know what they should have said to be more accurate? I only know - like most of the people posting here saying the same thing - that they expressed themselves “poorly” by using the word “poor”. Poor means something pretty dramatic and conjours up a particular set of circumstances for the vast majority of the people reading this, some of whom will be experiencing those things themselves.

But you’re criticising the OP for a poor choice of word & yet don’t have a better suggestion. That’s helpful!

Nope, she can still save ffs. Poor 😂

Please look at the post you quoted again.
I added another line.
Many thanks.

Precisely.

The days of owning your own home without 2 good incomes and/or generational wealth behind you are over. The deposits are too big. The mortgage rates are too high. And it’s never going to get any easier now. Shes right to use her disposable to live an exciting, enjoyable, experience rich life, because she sure as shit isn’t going to be asset-rich unless she marries well or inherits.

These threads always go the same way.
I think it is very important to focus on positives. Being able to afford rent/mortgage and food is something we are grateful for. Many are not as lucky.

Regardless of how much a person earns though its impossible not to notice the prices ticking up. £5 for prawns that were £2.50 last year. I put them down and chose something else. My salary hasn't doubled in that time. Sometimes it's about making different choices. I chose though to try to remain positive and grateful.

According to Google poor means “lacking sufficient money to live at a standard considered comfortable or normal in a society.”

So I guess the argument is what constitutes a normal standard?

I’m not sure you’re replying to the right post. I said I wouldn’t say I feel poor. Childcare and housing costs are one the reasons people on high incomes like the OP feel less well off though.

I can't see a line where you provide that definition. It might be my settings. Could you please reproduce your definition?

I made some suggestions a few posts back.....struggling, overstretched, over committed, not as comfortable as she'd hoped, not budgeting well....these are all options.

It's on the comment.

@Shakingitoff but should there be an upper limit relative to family size and likely cost? It's meant to be national insurance!

We have one child because at the time when the age gap would have been acceptable to us we couldn't afford two lots of childcare we felt very poor making that choice. It pains me now that we are paying 40% tax plus a fortune in council tax whilst people on benefits have multiple children. We made that sacrifice as it was the sensible decision yet others can do what they like and we fund it - 80% of childcare paid yet not even a student loan style scheme for working parents!!

London enhancements are also taxed at 40%! It's very hard to motivate yourself to earn more when you look at all the tax coming off it and work out the hourly rate for those extra responsibilities or hours.

No one has owner ship of the word poor it is literally insufficient money to live at a standard considered normal in society. If you are living in a society where million pound houses are considered normal you are going to feel poor if your budget is 500k.

I think you mean you are "living with no luxuries". Poor is something you don't grasp OP. Others have explained it well.

Me and DH are on a combined net income of 65k. We have a tiny amount of debt, quite a large house in the suburbs (Northamptonshire), desperate to move as are struggling to keep up with soaring costs. Thankfully DH can do OT in his job and there's a lot of it. There will be no holiday this year. Clothes are second hand or Primark at best. People at our kids school think we are well off- to some in our local area, we are Elton John. We never ever say we are poor, we compare down, always compare down.

According to ONS, on our combined net income of 65K, we are still considered to be in the top 20% of earners!!!! This is insane to me. In the top 5% you would have to be Londoners to be struggling so much. You have zero sympathy from most because of this.

In addition, the bottom 10% in the country have £10,600 of yearly income!!! Perspective is everything.

Absolutely brilliant post, especially the last paragraph.

Renting is the killer. My husband and I earn a combined 80K in Cardiff but we rent the prices have almost hit London levels without the London weighting. My rent alone would not be survivable

You’re putting your energy into the wrong thing here, and the wrong target. I shan’t make the same mistake by putting any more of my energy into this odd debate with you.

Unless labour gets in we will all be a lot poorer as intergenerational wealth disappears to private healthcare companies ( many foreign owned)

Recognising the actual definition of the word poor isn't gatekeeping:

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
adjective
1.
lacking sufficient money to live at a standard considered comfortable or normal in a society.
"they were too poor to afford a telephone"