To feel poor even though we earn well?

[erte]

We live in London and have to for our jobs. Even though we earn what most people would consider a very good household income, maybe top 5% nationally, we still feel poor.

Yes we can afford rent but can’t afford much more than a one bed and save. Whereas if you told me 10 years ago how much I would earn, I’d have imagined a far more comfortable existence.

You’re not poor, you just don’t feel rich. It’s a massive difference.

My BIL complains about being ‘poor’ what he means is he doesn’t have an endless supply of cash to spend on whatever/whenever he wants.

I think part of the problem is the expectation of what is absolutely necessary. I grew up in a nice place, everyone had big houses. Mostly households only had one car and it wasn’t particularly nice and not expensive. People rarely went abroad or did expensive house renovations.

The thing with London is what you have access too, there are lots of cheaper places to live with very little going on.

EXACTLY this. EXACTLY.

And as we make this shift meritocracy goes with it, and inevitably true democracy soon after.

It’s terrifying.

What is particularly annoying about this, is that funnelling so much money into pensions you can’t access for 30 years isn’t really the financial priority at this phase in your life.

I have a massive mortgage. I have a young family. I would like to try and buy a bigger house at some point. I need to think about university costs.

But the only way to not lose massive amounts of government support is to put half your income into pensions.

Just… argh.

The issue now though is that even high earners can’t afford it.

To buy a property that was £200k in 2000 might now cost £1.2m.

In 2000 a couple of teachers could afford that house - in 2024 you would both beed to be top 1% earners (£250k+ a year of income).

My age group live in vastly more modest properties than our colleagues twenty years older than us, despite having the same incomes

Yes, it's a great point. OPs situation isn't the absence of income, its the absence of wealth. Increasingly important to make the distinction.

And if, as I suspect, OP is under 40, there's a good chance there'll be someone on her road in the same type of accommodation, with a much lower income but much greater wealth. Because of the year they were born in. If I've guessed wrong and she's actually 57, there are still lots of other examples of this. It's a big fuckoff problem.

I understand it wouldn't be for everyone. We certainly didn't live frugally I was just quoting a few of our changes. We still had holidays, theatre etc etc. The main plus was property was much cheaper there enabling us to have no mortgage, loans etc.

And what is your life like now or are you still there? Just reads like that was in the past - was it not sustainable/too much work? Would love to hear more about it.

Agree about the direction the UK / Western world is going in since COVID etc… I work with clients in the US, and those of my generation (mid/late 40s) worry (and talk about) how they can’t afford college for their kids / hospital bills / childcare. All in top jobs, not poor. But you don’t the same conversations from those just ten years older (and older, again). There is definite shift, especially as my generation went to Uni, most of the women I know have careers & were caught in the housing market collapse after 2008. Times are changing… (nothing new, they always do of course).

One thing with the policies we pursued during covid, they were better in general for those with assets than those without.

I listened to a really good podcast on this today. It was Making Money 'Extreme Wealth Will Destroy Democracy' and it was an in depth interview with Martin Wolf Chief Economics Editor of The Financial Times. He did touch on lots of solutions from savings, taxing inheritance, land tax, affordable housing etc. Investment in STEM and innovation etc. People need 15% going into pensions (including employer contribution so 7.5% / 7.5% ) etc.

How much Labour can or will do I don't know. He also explained how the current system I.e. democratic capitalism is linked.

You can't have democracy without capitalism, or capitalism without democracy really, so there really is a huge amount at stake. For all its problems the UK is democratic. We need to not dismantle this entirely but reform and improve it.

Yesterday, the OP posted about how poor she is - despite being in the top 5%of earners in the country, but has not come back to the thread.

Well colour me shocked!

!

And this is true, but prices vary in London. The fact that working-middle class immigrant families are able to live here speaks to that. They live where they can afford, so that they are able to stay.

I can’t afford to live in the part of London I grew up in! And the only reason I can afford to live in a cheaper part is because of family help.

likewise houses I viewed for 105 -150K, 25 years ago are 800-1m plus.

yep that’s the huge shift.

Or people live in houses they bought a long time ago or inherited I suppose. This is always brought up when people talk about Eastenders.

Yes it was a number of years ago. E njoyed it for 10 years nut decided to up sticks and do something different. Moved to Spain for a while before taking early retirement and moved back to UK

No, the reason people have massive housing costs is because house prices have increased so much. People on average incomes are also struggling in “the place where people on average incomes” live and people on higher incomes moving there only drives costs up further and prices more people out.

DH and I are consultant surgeons. My dad is a retired surveyor and my mum was a SAHM. They bought their house when they were younger than us but we can’t afford a house anywhere near that size in that area. Something has gone very wrong here.

People want to live in areas close to their families and friends, near to where they grew up or close to good schools for their DC and they should be able to. The solution isn’t for people to just “live somewhere cheaper”. And we live in Manchester, not London!

Thank you @Lifeonmars for quoting me and for your comment.

And yes, to the feelings of shame because you can't afford school photos or trips and stay in bed because you can't afford heating. And yes too to not being able to afford sanitary protection for yourself or your girl children. Sending hugs and solidarity x 💕

Op hasn't come back.

Yeah well I had to get on a Tebbit bike and move hundreds of miles away when I was young - so don't moan that you can't live where you grew up because that's been going on for centuries

Nothing will ever convince me that someone in the top 5% is poor exempt through poor choices

I can’t afford to live in the part of London I grew up in!
this is not new, for decades people have migrated for work and a better standard of living, my great grandparents left N.Ireland to give their children a better life as there was little employment there ( esp for Catholics)

You can feel what you feel but if you're saving you're doing better than a lot of people.