To wonder when the excess of dogs will die down

[OptimismvsRealism]

There's so much shit everywhere

There are so many feral horrible dogs pissing on front doors or prams or shop displays and barking terrifyingly at kids

I am sick of them!!!!! Is this it or will people learn their post COVID lesson and only get pets they can actually handle in the future?

However, if you wish for humans to stay intellectually un-evolved and carry on keeping animals as pets for their own satisfaction - go for it, no one's stopping you. But we don't have to agree with you about it.

Well that's a bit of statement.

" if I want for humans to stay intellectually un-evolved "

Along the lines of your other "theories ".

Whatever.

You would be reversing history though.

Until the time a local, wild and free dog/ wolf came foraging around for food near humans and the relationship started again.

And I think there are a lot of problems around dog ownership but the " problem of pet animals having no real choice or freedom "
is the least of it.

@NRTFT

Well we are intellectually evolving all the time when it comes to pet ownership.

40 years ago it was 'normal' to keep rabbits on their own in a tiny hutch at the bottom of the garden in all weathers, to keep a dog in a yard outdoors and hardly ever walk it, to keep birds in cages, a solitary fish in a goldfish bowl with no enrichment.

We have progressed hugely.

There is further to go.

Perhaps people just aren't ready for the next step of ethical human/animal interaction and prefer to stick with 'what they know', to the detriment of animals that can not advocate for themselves unfortunately.

Perhaps people just aren't ready for the next step of ethical human/animal interaction and prefer to stick with 'what they know', to the detriment of animals that can not advocate for themselves unfortunately.

Whilst there are pets, abandoned or otherwise, who do not have good lives there is vast population that do. And maintaining the status quo is not to their detriment.

My dog doesn't need you to advocate for him, I already do.

In the far off, wild and free times it will all be up for grabs.

I'd say yes, it's pretty obvious humans are not ready for this imagined next step. 10 million dogs will tell you that.

I agree! 😊

This is so true!
I have a friend whose life is entire dominated by her obsession with her dog. She has no partner or kids and very few friends. So she has a dog because it avoids making any effort with humans. But the dog has no choice - it has to live the life she has decided for it.
Recently she went to huge supermarket. She normally drives and leaves the dog in the car. This time she walked and was affronted that the security guard wouldn’t let her in with the dog. Do she tied it up and it started howling as she walked onto the store. Security guard told her she couldn’t leave it as it was upsetting people. She had a tantrum, crowds gathered.
She has created a situation where the dog cannot be separated from her ever. And no consideration for people being nervous of an enormous dog howling the roof down.
Appalling selfishness.

What so every every dog owner is like your unhinged friend?

Just coming to say I'm on the same page as you, as I imagine it hasn't been a popular view on here. Domesticating animals is cruel, and keeping dogs involves a lot of exerting one's dominance over them.

Ordering them around, expecting them to obey one's every whim, deciding when and where they get to exercise, deciding when and what they get to eat, keeping them in enclosed spaces such as the house, garden, car, cage, keeping them alone without other dogs for most of their lives, yanking them around on a lead attached to their necks, and that's just the adopted ones. If breeders are taken into consideration, there's the issue of wearing out female dogs with pregnancy after pregnancy until they die early (happens with dairy cows too), as well as taking puppies away from their mothers at 6 weeks old as standard. It's no wonder many dogs are now on anti-anxiety medication.

My partner and I regularly note that dog people are intellectually lacking in comparison with, say, cat people. I'll never understand the need to exert one's power over an animal until it is completely dependent on you and in constant need of your attention, which it won't get anyway. It's for people who don't have much else filling their brains. No thinking person could bear the stupid yapping! And they make them beg for treats, for God's sake. Psychoanalysing it all would be grim.

My partner and I regularly note that dog people are intellectually lacking in comparison with, say, cat people.

Sounds fun!

Are all these little digs and stories about only pretending to like your friend’s dogs supposed to make us see the error of our ways or just to try and get a rise?

My partner and I regularly note that dog people are intellectually lacking in comparison with, say, cat people. I'll never understand the need to exert one's power over an animal until it is completely dependent on you and in constant need of your attention, which it won't get anyway. It's for people who don't have much else filling their brains. No thinking person could bear the stupid yapping! And they make them beg for treats, for God's sake. Psychoanalysing it all would be grim.

😂😂😂😂😂

It's for people who don't have much filling their heads.

dog people are intellectually lacking in comparison to cat people

Dogs aren’t yanked about on leads. Nor do they leave their mothers at six weeks, by the time they reach eight weeks she’s lost interest in them anyway. Good dog owners don’t exert power over their dogs any more than good parents exert it over their children.

Imagine regularly noting " cat v dog people "
and noting " intellectual superiority " 🤦‍♀️

😂😁

@GettingAwayFromYou

It's fine just to not like dogs you know.

Without giving us this mental image of you and your other half " regularly noting " people's intellectual capabilities.

Well, arguing from 'what nature intended' wasn't what you meant, was it?

You think it is unethical to own pets. While I agree that there are ethical considerations around pet ownership (not breeding animals for extreme features which make them uncomfortable or cause them pain, ensuring they have adequate food and exercise and shelter, giving them outlets for their instinctive drives, keeping an eye on their health etc) I don't see how keeping pets is ethically wrong.

Convince me. Why should I not have my two happy, healthy, energetic dogs who get plenty of exercise and who are given an outlet for their working drives? Why is it wrong to breed dogs towards certain drives to do certain jobs?

Edited to ask, why is pet ownership 'despicable'. Observation of almost all cultures will show that it is an innate human drive to spend time with animals.

But I have cats and dogs. Where am I on your scale?

Same here, even had pet sheep when I was child.

I agree that people have pets for their own benefit (no, you're not a good person because you got a "rescue" - you just wanted a pet).

Yes some people treat their pets really well, and we've also improved the way we eg look after rabbits and guinea pigs - I've said elsewhere how I feel a bit sad about the way we kept pets when I was a child, although they did get lots of time to run around the garden.

Until fairly recently veganism was thought to be cranky - now it's fairly mainstream. I am sure the acceptability of keeping pets will evolve over time. But breeding needs to be under much stricter controls now - it's simply unacceptable that animals are bred for features which cause them pain.

Cats are slightly different as they choose their humans, and largely look after themselves.

I have a rescue lizard and goldfish too!

Oh and DC2 has a garden snail with a broken shell!

Observation of almost all cultures will show that it is an innate human drive to spend time with animals

is it? Or is just about using them to make human lives easier - sheepdogs, horses for pulling ploughs, pulling carts, cats for keeping down the rats and mice, cows and sheep for food and wool.

Dogs are loving, cats are arses 😆

It’s being arses that makes me love cats, we were servants to four at one stage, now we have two dogs. I guess our intelligence has diminished with age.

I was going to ask where I was on the scale of 1 - unethical as I’ve got a rescue. One that was starved, burnt and beaten so badly by previous owners (humans who, apparently, trump dogs EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.) he couldn’t even stand when he was found cowering in a shed. Turns out I just wanted to exert my human dominance over an animal. What a tosser I am.

Saw my dogs when they were born, friends dog. Didn't fully have then till they were 8 weeks old.

Am I intellectually inferior for getting a therapy dog for disabled DD (after 3+ years on the waiting list) and therefore making her more able to regulate her emotions and cope with the stresses of life? Or would I be more intelligent to continue (prescription) drugging her to stop the repeated self harming behaviours?