Anyone else wobbling about voting Labour?

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

I desperately want to GTTO but the last few years have taught me that ‘any change’ isn’t always good and things can get worse, even if you think they can’t.

I’ve watched all the debates now and Starmer is so… wet. I don’t like him. The first thing he did when women’s rights were mentioned his first thought was men who ‘identify as women’ and how ‘marginalised’ they are. When asked about immigration he squirmed and squirmed before muttering about his role as DPP (who cares? We want to know what you plan to do NOW). When asked about his support for Corbyn he said ‘but I didn’t think we would actually win..’

There’s something about him which is making me very uncomfortable and I just have a bad feeling now about what would happen if he was leader.

Anyone else? If you’re not voting Tory or Labour, who are you voting for and why? I assumed I would vote Labour this time but my gut is suddenly screaming at me not to!

No wobbles here, I decided how I'd vote six months ago and nothing has changed my mind since.

In 2006 when Labour left office, the population of the UK was nearly 61 million, it is now nearly 68 million and of those, many (including a significant amount of young people who traditionally we would assume would be financially supporting old people) are financially inactive, in fact they are actually needing the financial support themselves. No party has the answer to this. In fact all seem to suggest that disability payments will be rationed which will go down like a cup of cold sick on MN.

Sad but true

Not naive, just not ground down. British governments have done amazing things in very hard times. Not this Tory government though, they wrecked the country with their greed for power and money.

Time to put them in the bin.

Not naive, just not ground down. British governments have done amazing things in very hard times. Not this Tory government though, they wrecked the country with their greed for power and money.

Time to put them in the bin.

No government has had to deal with such a huge population with such huge complex issues.

This. I know I keep banging on about the Attlee government ad nauseum but I find it so inspiring. It inherited a country on its knees - unhealthy, poorly fed, knackered by six years of war, bomb damaged, broke - and look what it did. There’s no reason why another government can’t improve the current situation.

But we wouldn’t have Atlee, the party might have the same name but literally every person is different

You can only go by what you see now

I’m not wobbling!

It's exactly this kind of manipulative take that pushes me away from Labour.

I agree with you, but would rather have people in charge that I think would try to make it work in the best way possible for most people, which I think Labour would.

I think both the Tories and the brighter Reform members welcome decline as a way to make personal money so have no vested interest in mitigating it.

You’re missing the point. We’ve had governments that have got us out of deep shit in the past, why can’t we have another?

Climate change? Russia and China forming a military alliance?

A country whose inhabitants were willing and able to work hard though despite having gone through the trauma and hardship of war.

A country much more resilient than the one we have today, unfortunately.

And one whose health has not been decimated by obesity.

How do those things stop us making lives better in the UK?

And one whose health has not been decimated by obesity.

One whose health was decimated by rationing and lack of health care. Oh, and smoking, almost every adult smoked then.

In 2006 when Labour left office, the population of the UK was nearly 61 million

2006?! Labour left office in 2010 when the population was 62.8 million @Sweetpeasaremadeforbees

I get the Atlee point. Yes, we gave big problems, and it's possible that whoever is elected will fail. But I want to vote for the party who will at least try to build the sort of society I want to live in. So Labour.

We still don't want the rates to go where they were. We don't want bodies not being buried. We don't want rubbish piling in the streets.

We also don't want another lockdown, but we can't predict what rampant unknown viruses will come along. I am not a fan of the Tories or of BoJo, but I'm not sure what any other party or leader could have done with COVID?

We don't want the cost of living to rise any higher, or for it to be where it is. But again, could we have predicted COVID? Or Putin's insanity (maybe that one) and the impact on the global economy? What could any of the parties done there?

Do you want to go back to the 70s? With all the sexism and racism? Much worse then for women and people of colour than it is now, even though it's not great now. The pay gap? So many other things have improved since then.

Like I said before, every generation has it's difficulties. There's no point saying someone had it easier.

Where are the plans to renationalise the railways?

This is in their manifesto I believe

This would be good. Currently, my journey is 20% cheaper if I travelled from a station that is twice as far away. Crazy.

Yes, but what I'm saying is it didn't stop people from having a can do attitude back then.

Also, research has shown that obesity has a greater societal and economic impact than smoking. Put it bluntly, smoking kills faster - it doesn't lead to as many societal years of ill-health (costly in both treatment and being unable to work).

Also:

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB4549.html

Surely every government deals with a population larger than the last? 🤔

Yes, but what I'm saying is it didn't stop people from having a can do attitude back then.

So what’s to stop us having a can do attitude now? There’s no 21st century requirement to be defeatist.

2006?! Labour left office in 2010 when the population was 62.8 million

OK so the population has gone up by 5 million instead of 7 million since the last Labour government That doesn't change the population increase from 2006 to 2023. And within that figure, a lot of EU net financial contributors left after Brexit.

So Labour was in power during the 2008 crash? Doesn't that just demonstrate the fact that so much is out of the Government's control? Or are you saying that that was the Labour government's fault?

It's not a manipulative take, it's an honest one. Most of the country want rid of the Tories, see through their lies and want them gone. And why would it push you away from Labour, when it is not about Labour?

I don't know, perhaps ask the swathes of economically inactive.

Surely every government deals with a population larger than the last?

I think many many governments are struggling to deal with their populations getting larger and it will only get worse with climate change and mass migration.