Anyone else wobbling about voting Labour?

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

I desperately want to GTTO but the last few years have taught me that ‘any change’ isn’t always good and things can get worse, even if you think they can’t.

I’ve watched all the debates now and Starmer is so… wet. I don’t like him. The first thing he did when women’s rights were mentioned his first thought was men who ‘identify as women’ and how ‘marginalised’ they are. When asked about immigration he squirmed and squirmed before muttering about his role as DPP (who cares? We want to know what you plan to do NOW). When asked about his support for Corbyn he said ‘but I didn’t think we would actually win..’

There’s something about him which is making me very uncomfortable and I just have a bad feeling now about what would happen if he was leader.

Anyone else? If you’re not voting Tory or Labour, who are you voting for and why? I assumed I would vote Labour this time but my gut is suddenly screaming at me not to!

I've posted on several threads that my advice is to vote for the person who you think will be the best MP for your constituency.

Your one vote matters.

I have always voted Labour and in many ways I do quite like Starmer precisely because he’s not super slick or even very comfortable with being in the limelight. And he’s been nothing less than masterly in his marginalisation of the left, but I’m so fucking furious at the equivocation over the trans issue. Trans women are men and the vast majority of them aren’t suffering from any form of gender dysphasia either. I don’t want men - any man no matter how he identifies - in any single sex space ever. I don’t see why the needs of trans identifying men have to be prioritised over the rights of women and I want the GRA to be repealed - I certainly don’t want it made easier for TIMs to get a GRC. As things stand, there is no party I feel I could vote for and thus I will be spoiling my ballot by writing ‘Respect my sex if you want my X’ on it!

I agree. If you disagree with the Conservatives, there are plenty of options other than Labour. It’s not just a choice between those 2 parties. There are normally multiple candidates in each constituency.

"Anyone else? If you’re not voting Tory or Labour, who are you voting for and why? I assumed I would vote Labour this time but my gut is suddenly screaming at me not to!"

You know damn well that NOT voting Labour is equivalent to voting Tory, so clearly if you're not voting Labour you think we'll be OK if the Tories stay in power.

"but the last few years have taught me that ‘any change’ isn’t always good and things can get worse, even if you think they can’t."

When you say the last few years have taught you this are you referring to the absolute shit show revolving door Tory government or something else? They are living proof that you can stand in front of the nation and confidently and very believeably lie your pants off to get people to follow you....and all the while you are full of shit and doing the exact opposite. You can't believe a single thing the Tories say any more, they have zero credibility. Reflecting on that I really don't think a bit of hesitancy from Starmer's is much to worry about. Ultimately he seems like a steady (but less charismatic) hand and those sorts of people quitely get on with doing a good job. I think that's what we need.

@LuluBlakey1 I agree. Starmer reminds me of John Major. Terrible on TV, but very intelligent, hard working and competent.

The party is anything but incidental, what is this nonsense? We've had party politics since the 18th century.

You vote for a local representative, but their party allegiance is hugely significant to the vast majority of voters.

It's incidental to your local area's day to day running. But it does contribute to which party has the power and therefore which party leader is PM.

It shouldn't be the only factor considered when choosing who to vote for, but it should be considered.

My MP is currently Jacob Rees Mogg
I'm voting Labour

Not really. They just want more Tory rule and are using opposition of the trans movement to justify such bonkersness to themselves.😂

Of course there are options, but they'll all lose.

That's the reality of FPTP.

If your MP has a large majority, waste your vote how you wish without consequence. If it's a ma.rginal seat, wasting your vote risks your least preferred candidate squeaking in.

Wise words @Evenstar

The Lib Dems openly support trans identifying men and will do nothing to protect women and single sexual spaces - please don’t vote for them!

If more people voted for neither Tory or Labour, we'd stand a chance at something different.

Not voting Labour doesn't mean you want Tory rule. It means you disagree with both Labour and Tory policies and want something different.

Voting loses it's meaning if you have to do it tactically to avoid one party getting in, instead of voting for the policies you want to see made real.

So do you only have 1 vote ?
In Ireland we have Proportional Representation.
Supposedly it's more democratic.
Sometimes I think first past the post is better.

I like Kier Starmer, he is serious, trust worthy, good past history of achieving what he sets out to do, his shadow cabinet is excellent.

we need to vote labour to make 100% sure thus terrible Tory government is gone! Don’t waste your vote! (I’ve always voted Tory in the past btw)

But he’s not boring and stable, he’s boring and slippery. He seems unable to give a straightforward answer to anything. The only times he seems passionate are when he’s talking about trans people or his father’s occupation.

In Keir Starmer's closing speech last night I thought I'd rarely seen a politician more passionate about the NHS and about making things better for people generally in this country.

No, I'm not wavering about voting Labour.

I'm voting Labour as we have a brilliant local Labour candidate who has been very visible in our area and online, welcoming questions and putting in a lot of effort.

I'm utterly apathetic about the whole thing.

The Tories leave me cold (however I don't think we'd be in any different a situation if it had been Labour in power for the past 14 years).

The NHS costs too much, and no government will ever attempt anything maverick because the NHS is the one true religion.
Education is fucked because we've nurtured a society where the pupils and parents call the shots. Discipline, boundaries and values don't even figure in schools now, never mind underpin the system.
[We're a democracy, I'm presuming no one would have it otherwise] We're in a cost of living crisis because the populace wanted the economy shut down during the covid outbreak. The populace also wanted brexit.

Forgive me sisters of old, but I don't think I'll even bother my arse voting.

It’s the not naming a woman thing for me. Men are men and women are women. It’s not a slur to say it. Men who believe they are women are old fashioned transvestites. Trans has taken on a wrong meaning that does not protect our legally protected characteristics of sex. So, no, not Labour for me anymore.

Of course it is. You vote for an MP because of the party they represent. Nothing would convince me to vote for a Conservative or Reform candidate as my local MP. Nothing . If you vote for a candidate as MP you risk electing a government of that party .

quite often i am torn between lib dem labour and green,
still the same!

Keir Starmer has turned the Labour party from an extreme left wing party run by Corbyn and Momentum, into a centrist party that understands the economy and the importance of services like the NHS. To do that you have to be a strong capable leader.

@SloaneStreetVandal The NHS can be well run again. At the moment so much money is wasted sub contracting services (probably to Tory mates) who run sub standard services. I have experience in this area and you would be shocked at the incredibly poor service some private companies are providing, but getting loads of money for. This government is corrupt.

Don't know why there's so many Starmer apologists on here. He's a complete liar who couldn't care less about the country. He doesn't care about the NHS, him and Streeting want to go further with privatisation than Blair did.

I'm no tory, but hell will freeze over before I vote for this version of Labour.