Anyone else wobbling about voting Labour?

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

I desperately want to GTTO but the last few years have taught me that ‘any change’ isn’t always good and things can get worse, even if you think they can’t.

I’ve watched all the debates now and Starmer is so… wet. I don’t like him. The first thing he did when women’s rights were mentioned his first thought was men who ‘identify as women’ and how ‘marginalised’ they are. When asked about immigration he squirmed and squirmed before muttering about his role as DPP (who cares? We want to know what you plan to do NOW). When asked about his support for Corbyn he said ‘but I didn’t think we would actually win..’

There’s something about him which is making me very uncomfortable and I just have a bad feeling now about what would happen if he was leader.

Anyone else? If you’re not voting Tory or Labour, who are you voting for and why? I assumed I would vote Labour this time but my gut is suddenly screaming at me not to!

No doubts for me, my local Labour candidate lives in my area and has already done so much for the community so I have trust in her.
My values align with Labour values.
Torries have made a mess of everything.
I work in social care and have seen the huge decline in the lives of families, disabled people and people living in poverty whilst torries have been in power.
I think the only competition in my constituency is Reform unfortunately and the thought of them being in power terrifies me.

Well in my constituency last time round the Tories were in second place to SNP and labour trailed 3rd. The constituency has changed a bit this time round, but even although I don't want the SNP in much - I'm worried if I vote Labour that in fact, the Tories will get in where we are!!

There's a significant wing of the Conservative party want to do the same. When Sunak resigns, watch out for Braverman and the batshit rightwing fringe taking control and doing a deal with Farage to achieve exactly this.

It's not a local council election, it's a General Election- it's about electing a government. Only vote Tory or Lib Dem if that's who you want as a government to try and rescue the country and our public services from the complete mess created in the last 14 years.

I’m trying to be of the mindset that we’re not voting for the man, we’re voting for the party.

@DogInATent I know they do. They would be a nightmare if they had any power. They are intent on destroying human rights.

It's so depressing the whole lot of them are a disgrace, none deserve to be voted in.

I shall either spoil my paper or for anyone else that isn't Labour.

Locally we had some brilliant Tory councillors and MP, I go to the local resident meetings and they really worked for everyone and got stuff done. Now we have Labour and they are woeful, completely useless.

As the saying goes you could put a red rosette on a dog and people will still vote for the colour here.

No, it's not. You are casting your vote for a local representative. Their party is entirely incidental.

To vote for a government we'd have to have a system similar to the German voting system where you cast two votes, one for your local representative and the second for the party you want to govern the country.

Me, for the reasons you say and because I don’t want labour to have a large majority and lurch further to the left
I think ( hope) if they get a large majority, they will be able to ignore the Hard Left more or less. Corbyn, McDonnell, and Abbott consistentstently voted against Blair and he let them. He could have expelled them but they were so unimportant they didn't really matter. The lurch to the Hard Left will be more likely with a small majority where every vote counts. Starmer has expelled Corbyn, ignored Muslim Vote and their demands and ignored Unite when they refused to endorse the manifesto. He's pretty ruthless I think. I don't think he's going to bring in Utopia but I'm willing to bet he actually wants to try and improve the state of the country. I reluctantly voted Labour in 2019. I'm far happier voting for a Centrist Labour now. My postal vote barely hit the mat before it was back in the post box.

I never understand why people think this is any kind of convincing, let alone a mike drop.

Yes of course, technically because voting is divided up by area you are voting for an individual MP. But they are all representatives of one party or another, and ultimately the number of representatives who win decides which party is in number 10. And who is in number 10 is clearly the critical factor in terms of the impact of your vote.

Unless you are saying that local 'power' trumps national power? MPs have little to no local power at all.

Or perhaps you are saying that a particular MP's ability to cut through red tape if in the future you have a problem with a national bureaucracy is the critical thing? That would also be nuts.

So basically, this argument is what allows the likes of Boris Johnson and similar sociopaths who can mimic cheery bluster to come to power, where they enact their verging-on-far-right agenda.

@DramaLlamaBangBang I agree he is pretty ruthless. Locally I keep hearing complaints from people on the extreme left who have been thrown out after various social media posts.

LibDem here. Voted SNP for years, didn’t think I’d ever stop tbh but I am, sadly.

Saying he is aiming to be more closely aligned with the EU is disingenuous at best. One of his main policies, adding VAT on school fees, is in direct contravention of EU law. How can he say we are going to be more closely aligned when one of the first promised policy changes goes against EU law?

I still haven't looked into mine. But we have had the same conservative mp for a long time. It will be interesting to see what happens. People obviously like him or wouldn't vote time and time again. But with how people are talking abd we have had a boundary change I think this might change

“This notion that all Trans-People are closet sex-offenders is bizzare. This coming from someone who thinks that some places should be based on biology.”

Oh dear, dear… 🙄 you really don’t get it do you? I feel a bit sorry for you and all the other transphobe-finder-generals on this thread.

Once you allow the lovely transwomen (who are men btw) an all-areas pass to every space where biological girls and women are - sometimes in very vulnerable situations - you basically open the floodgates to every male deviant and sex offender who just want to hurt, abuse and get sexual titillation.

Women aren’t claiming that transwomen are abusers - but allowing those males in - allows them ALL in.

Google Isla Bryson and Barbie Kardashian. These are fucked up individuals who have no business calling themselves women. Or being treated as such.

Men as a sex class are responsible for most of the sexual and violent crime. The only way to keep women and girls safe is to differentiate by sex.

Once Labour get in and we lose our rights, dignities, safety and political agency as women we are fucked. And it won’t be easy to wrestle that back.

People are really wanting more Tory rule because otherwise trans people will be allowed in places?! 🤯 bonkers

I agree with you on Starmer, and even though I don't particularly want to vote for the Conservatives, I have looked at the candidates standing in my area and saw that just one of them is a resident of my borough, which I think is really significant because they are aware of local issues. She also advocates for women's and girls' safety, a cause I firmly believe in. So it looks like it will be a Tory vote from me and besides I reside in a safe blue constituency anyway. I won’t vote Labour because of ULEZ, their position on Net Zero and Labour’s views on women.

@Another76543 Starmer has said clearly he wants to align more closely with the EU to improve our economy. It is about trade. Brexit has introduced a whole load of red tape that has made trading with our European neighbours difficult and costly. It is about reducing all the red tape the Conservative government introduced with the Brexit treaty.

I should have known the vat on school fees people would soon join this thread though.

Worst choice for years, did not think it would be possible but Starmer and Labour look even more useless than Tories. Everyone else is Cloud cuckoo land.
The only saving grace is that we're not in the US

@PennyNotWise A few. Even though if all they care about is trans people, they are ignoring the Conservatives had years and years to bring in new legislation. They did not.

The EU will not have any interest in this divergence.

Starmer is talking bout trade.

It's not Tory or Labour. There's a lot of options.

Vote for who has the policies you want. Vote for what you want for the country.

If more people did that rather than tactical voting to get the Tories out or stop Labour getting in, things could be different.

The issue I have is with him saying one thing but doing exactly the opposite.

He mightn't be the most charismatic of people but he is decent and has personal and professional integrity. He has changed the Labour party following on from Corbyn. He has made it electable again.

People made a huge mistake voting Tory on the basis of Johnson thinking he was charismatic and funny and ignoring his past lies, deceptions and lack of integrity. They couldn't see past his charisma. Well look at Starmer's past - it is one of honourable behaviour, intelligence, commitment to a national job as DPP. He has worked hard in every post he's had . He was very well-respected as DPP.

The police found nothing in his behaviours that was wrong or law-breaking when they investigated him after claims by Tories- unlike Johnson and Sunak who were both found to have broken the law.

He is intelligent, measured, understands the law nationally and internationally.

He may not be exciting you but he's honest, decent, hard-working, astute, honourable and committed to doing his best for this country- more than can be said of Cameron, Johnson, Truss or Sunak.

I think he deserves your vote on that basis.

@Screamingabdabz You are out of touch. Men and trans women already work in women's prisons, in refuges and rape crisis. The situation is already here. Men are allowed to work in women's prisons even when they say they are men. The Conservatives have not changed this in 14 years.