Friends husband a miserable git

[Lovegoingout]

We recently went on holiday with friends we have known for 30 years. 5 men and 5 women. 9 of us had a great time. My friends husband was miserable the whole time, never took his long trousers and long sleeved shirt off. It was 30C, kept himself separate from everyone else and never engaged.

Had a long face at every meal out. Lost his temper with a waiter about nothing.

I am done with him as in 30 years he has never asked us about us, our children or anything we have done. We have talked to him, asked him about his hobbies but he makes it plain with one word answers that he is not interested. When we go out as a foursome, he puts my friend down in front of us.

We have put up with it for 30 years but no longer. How do I extract from going out as a 4 some without upsetting my friend, who is lovely.?

i will still go out with the larger group of 10 but won’t sit next to him.

i love my friend and feel sorry for her being downtrodden by him. All the other 8 in the group feel the same but are frightened to upset and break up the group and won’t say anything to him so we continue going out with 1 miserable git spoiling the evening.

he is also very arrogant and knows it all

I know so many scenarios like this. All too often, the DW is defensive or knows fine well but is hoping that people won't ostracise her DH as she'd feel obliged to 'side' with him.

I've known so many women apologise for their DH's boorish behaviour in advance. After decades, the assumption is that everyone has to be like her and adapt around him rather than the other way around.

However, people often get to a stage in life where they don't see why they should continue to do this. But, because it's so difficult to negotiate, it can spell the end of friendship groups. Or leave people worried about the DW's isolation.

I don't think I'd talk to him or ask any questions.
Just ignore him.

Hmm, I bet he is really not someone who goes in for group hols or being out with a load of people. That said, should be grumpy if agreed to be involved

I think there is no way around this but to be honest with your friend and let the cards fall where they may. Yes, its sad she's with this man but he's being incredibly bloody rude- I'd be livid if my husband behaved like this and would be having words about it never happening again.

This is your money and your holiday and your annual leave- no way would I be spending it with someone who makes every moment miserable. Or, I'd just start going on holidays with only family and getting out of it that way.

There comes a point where you have to say enough is enough. She might not mind but you are allowed to.

When you get home, just invite her out. The pair of you go for lunch, go shopping, do stuff that your husbands would not be interested in. So you still see her but avoid him.

I would just hang out with her.

Is it possible that he has social anxiety and is uncomfortable rather than arrogant?

Someone with social anxiety wouldnt be starting arguments with waiters or putting down their wife in front of their friends as that just draws negative attention to themselves. Thats not how social anxiety works- you want to be invisible and/or liked, not create negative attention and judgement from others. It's the absolute opposite of what someone with social anxiety would do (I've had it).

I also have social anxiety but have been accused of being rude and arrogant many times due to my behaviour.

You sound a bit mad, to be honest. He doesn't like you. You don't like him. Some of your reasons are valid (putting down his wife in front of you), some are ridiculous (who cares whether he wears long trousers on holiday?) Just be friends with your friend. Just because you're all married doesn't mean you need to go out as an army of ten all the time.

You put people down on the regular in front of others? I can absolutely see how shyness can come off as aloofness but criticising your partner in a mean way in front of others doesnt sound like anxiety to me, it sounds like him being an arsehole.

No, I don’t tend to put other people down. However, the one word answers and apparent lack of interest in the others in the group could also be down to social anxiety.

It’s true that this guy could just be an arrogant arse but I was just raising as a possibility that there could be other issues at play here.

Just be friends with your friend. Just because you're all married doesn't mean you need to go out as an army of ten all the time

Agree with this. There is no need to always holiday in a huge group or go out in a foursome. Just see her alone. You obviously dont enjoy it (understandably, due to his behaviour) and he clearly isnt enjoying it either so knock it on the head and just see her alone. Why keep putting yourself through this when both you and him arent even enjoying it?

I don't think you can generalise like that about social anxiety. I suffer from extreme social anxiety in a lot of situations and I know that when things don't go right in a social situation which I haven't been able to avoid I cannot handle it in the same way as a " normal " person. I probably sometimes come over as rude or certainly passive aggressive and if there was an issue with a waiter I might be accused of being unpleasant because I'm socially awkward when being unpleasant isn't my intention.

I don't know whether this man has social anxiety or not but the fact he couldn't relax to the extent of wearing suitable less formal clothing certainly smacks of some mental health issue going on.
OPs post certainly make it sound as though he either doesn't like mixing socially or he really just doesn't like his DW's friends.

I agree with the pp who suggests OP should just ask her friend out to do things together without their partners. Or even general women only activities with the other women of the holiday group. It would be sad if her friend lost out because of her DH's behaviour but I fully agree OP shouldn't have to put up with his behaviour .

If it's just one person being like that I wouldn't let it affect me. It's a shame to cut your friend out because of that.

Fair enough- but even IF its a result of anxiety, thats for him to seek help for, its not within OP's responsibility to fix or help him, and it is his responsibility not to take out his unpleasant behaviour on OP or waiters just doing their job, or his wife with his mean put down comments.

Mental health issues is not an excuse to treat people like garbage, it just isnt. If its unbearable for him then he should decline to go and/or seek help for whatever is clearly getting to him.

We can speculate all we like but the fact is, some people are simply not very nice.

I don't think you can equate social anxiety with shyness. It is not the same thing at all.

I have to keep an eye on my DH & apologise for his behaviour. It’s very embarrassing. I’ve just told him that he’s not invited to a family birthday thing for DS, and he’s kicking off… But, it’s not my doing. Neither is it the fault of my DM, DF & sister, who are sick of him. Your friend knows all of this about her husband.

It;s likely that your friend is in an abusive relationship with this man and is either unaware (believing him when he tells her she's worthless and the reason for his behaviour) or just doesn't know how to leave.

If this is the case, he will be delighted to see you reduce contact. Isolating victims is a key goal of coercive controllers.

If he is a coercive controller, he will find a way to stop her socialising with you without him present.

Just to add this was to celebrate a special birthday for all 4 women. Also to say that everyone said on holiday “what is wrong with X”. I still don’t think sitting by the pool on a sun bed with long trousers, socks, fur lined slippers is a normal thing to do. It was almost as he was taunting us, saying, I am not enjoying this holiday and I am going to make sure you know it.

My friend keeps trying to set up a date for 4 of us to go out as this is what we have done for years but I can’t face being with him anymore.

As suggested I am going to say to my friend that I would like to go out just with her for lunch etc. I don’t want to upset her as she is lovely. Which is why everyone in the group have never said anything as we all feel sorry for her having to put up with him.

Well I totally agree with you.
He may just be a nasty person.
And of course he should be trying to modify his behaviour even if it is as a result of mental health.
I was only taking issue with the generalisation the pp made about how social anxiety manifests itself.

It;s likely that your friend is in an abusive relationship with this man and is either unaware (believing him when he tells her she's worthless and the reason for his behaviour) or just doesn't know how to leave

I think this too- he sounds abusive to me. I cant imagine what her life must be like behind closed doors.

Keep seeing her but not him, that way she still has you as a friend but you dont have to put up with his shit.

I thought he was wearing those clothes because he was uncomfortable with his own body and didn't want to expose it to others. It's easier to act confident (and bullying) when you're clothed, but when you're half naked it's an awful lot harder.

Not saying he's not generally an arse, though.

Well tbh OP's latest update about furlined slippers by the pool certainly adds to a picture of someone mentally unwell.

Have you or any of the others actually said anything to the wife? Not in a nasty way. Just asking if he’s OK. Acknowledging that we all like different things and if there something that has upset him.
Her answer would be telling.