To resent that my future depends on whether a man deems me good enough

[Iwilldrawjapan]

The main source of my mental health problems has been men.
I'm 33 years old and except for my very first boyfriend aged 18, who I left when I was 20, no guy has ever fallen madly in love with me.

I'm fully aware I don't need a man in my life to be happy but I'm only human and it's natural to want a connection with somebody. Not that it's attractive to admit that, mind. You're supposed to not be looking at all and absolutely love being single until someone unexpectedly falls into your lap, otherwise you're 'desperate'.

I'd be ok with it if more people chose to be single, however I hardly know anyone who's single, every bloody person I know is with someone, especially at this age, this is the worst age for me.

Men like me and find me attractive, they just don't want to date me seriously/don't want to marry me/just don't fall in love.

Everyone seems to have some guy become absolutely obsessed with them and just really want to marry them.
Guys mainly use me for an ego boost but I'm just not the one for them.

People sprout mindless fucking clichés at me all the time 'Oh it'll happen when you least expect it!' well here's the thing, I'm not 'expecting' it at all, and guess what, nobody's fallen into my lap.

'Just go online!' like it's that easy, it really isn't.
I'm attractive physically, I have stuff going for me, I travel, I am financially independent, I own property, I have hobbies, good family relationship, I have friends. In other areas of my life all is great.

I'm really not desperate, I'm sure someone will be along to tell me I'm coming across as desperate but I have turned down men too, I would not date just anyone.
My standards are not too high, either. If anything I'm very likely considered out of these men's leagues. They're just very ordinary, average men, but I liked them.

People I've dated have either not wanted a relationship after 2 months, or not wanted a bigger commitment after a few years.

Life isn't fair I guess, people will tell me to 'love myself first ' and all the usual crap. Having 10,000 hobbies is no replacement for a happy relationship. I'm sick of seeing the happy couple photos on Facebook, posing with their husband and holding the baby.

Maybe I will meet someone, but for 13 years I've had bad luck. I've never been anyone's 'one'.

I can't have a child alone, I don't have local family, I can't afford to be a single parent financially or otherwise, period.

Honestly, my mental health has been shot to pieces. Life still has meaning, but it's unfair that I'm deprived of what seems to come so easily to other people.

Op I haven’t read the whole thread but have read all your posts.

i just want to say that im sorry you’re in this position and I can understand why you feel so alone. 30s is a terrible age for this - i call it the ‘empire building’ stage, when everyone is very concerned with showing off about things like houses, weddings, kids etc. it can feel extremely isolating not to be able to participate.

it will be no consolation to say that in my experience many wonderful women end up in this position. Many more settle for an awful man and end up incredibly unhappy. I think you are right to expect a partner to put you first, but I would say that is probably not the experience of most women in relationships with men. And the more people show off on social media, the less likely it is to be true.

Ive been with my dh since we were mid 20s so im not speaking from personal experience, but i have tried to support some of my friends through this. I hope i’ve been sensitive enough not to dismiss their feelings and I would certainly never tell them how to meet people (what would I know?!) They are all incredibly important to me and although I know friendship is not the same as a relationship, you may be underestimating the value you have to other people.

No advice but just want to say I know how you feel. I'm sure some people will think it's awful to make this comparison but I always felt like their was a lot of consideration for my friends who were struggling to conceive because of their partner's low sperm count (lots of thoughtful messages on mother's day, being sensitive with pregnancy announcements etc.) but absolutely no consideration for me who was single and also desperately wanted children but couldn't have them due to not having found a partner. Of course that's not to say I resented the consideration to them, it just feels like when you are single there is this assumption you must be too picky or not have worked on yourself or something like that.

As it happens, I have actually met someone now but I'm older than you and it was very much luck. All I can offer you for comfort is that life can change very quickly and you aren't doing anything wrong, it really is so dependent on luck. I also found my friends in small towns met people much more easily than people in big cities where you rarely bump into the same person twice. Wishing you all the best.

Irrelevant but I'm sick of the bloody Facebook photos where they have the existing sibling holding the baby scan of the new baby they're expecting, I've seen this so many times, wtf?!

Why should the OP want a man who wants a little woman who lets him vent and has no ideas or life of her own? I daresay there are men like that, but they aren't worth having.

I had to rent out my property for various reasons, my 2nd tenant was a decently educated, articulate, pleasant young woman who was not long back from tefl teaching in Korea. After a while circumstances meant I had to move back in, so I gave more than full notice and she & her partner opted to go early. I think she was already pregnant at that time.

Like other tenants they left a shit tonne of stuff behind in drawers etc.
While I was trying to sort out what to keep and what to throw out, I kept coming across opened letters to her partner. They were letters about methadone supply, letters about drug addiction treatment, letters about court cases for carrying a weapon, letters about a car being impounded etc etc etc

I kept the court letters and the woman's degree certificate (the original) etc in case they needed them. And I offered to arrange collection of them. She said she'd get them but didn't arrange it for actual years, then contacted me years later when they'd finally been thrown out.

I suppose she had been busy with their first child and I think she's had a second one with him too.

That is an example of what some graduate, travelled, "nice" women are settling with.

It's easy to have a partner when you apply no reasonable standards and that is the case in many many relationships.

I feel it is still the case - for many varied reasons - that lots of women will accept pretty much anything in order to have a partner and a family.

I was friendly with a woman at uni who, through mutual friends, I know has an extremely problematic husband, from Croatia originally. He tried FB friending me out of the blue (she and I haven't had contact in 20 or more years). I know she was well aware of issues with him before marriage and two kids. But she sent ahead.
She grew up in a household with a spendthrift, embarrassing alcohol father whom her mother would never ever throw out, it was unthinkable to her; because he was her h and kids father. That's the sort of example she grew up in; I think she thinks you put up with whatever, as long as you get your kids and do the conventional thing.

The OP has been given SO SO much well meaning advice on here and I'm sure if she reads the thread back in the future, a lot of it will be very valuable.

But I think what a lot of people are missing right NOW is that the OP has said she is mentally unwell.

And that being mentally unwell has led to her having suicidal thoughts.

THAT should be the priority here at the moment. Not links to different dating sites or advice on whether she's setting her hopes too high or too low.

I'm 40 and haven't met anyone
The pool is pretty small and smaller still for me being tall, overweight, a red head and I wear glasses so...

Mostly I've met men who think I'm fine to have sex with but won't be seen with me so obviously I reject!
I'm not looking now, never had a relationship longer than a year and I'm quite content without.

To share personal info I actually do kind of relate to this.

I've been the one before the one, for a few men. But some of those men are now having issues to work through.

It doesn't feel great to know you weren't quite the one. But you just weren't the right people for each other at that time.

It's quite exhausting to put energy into hobbies etc when you really want a relationship, and hormonally the body wants to procreate.

But expect it to take 6 months to a year before you know you want to be together. As before I suggest seeing a counsellor through the process as they can help you with the fears and anxieties that come with dating as an older woman and hold space for you as you navigate that road to finding a partner. It's a two way decision.

Relationships later in life can be incredibly strong ones built on a foundation where you know yourselves more deeply. Trust me, when you do find your one it will have been worth the wait as you know yourself so much more.

I've rewritten my plan many times to make space for myself and where I am at, that means I don't fit the mould, but it also means finding a partner whose values match mine.

Hi OP. I have some good friends in your situation and, without knowing you, here’s what I’d like to say to them (might apply here!)

friend 1: you are totally focused on what you are or are not getting from these men, and don’t express what you have to give or share! You’re so scared of being abandoned that you push too hard. You need to invite, not demand.

friend 2: you can’t expect to formalise a relationship in the first two weeks and this therapy/interview approach will feel contrived to most men, who maybe just need more time for things to develop emotionally! Stop talking yourself down, people really hear the stories you tell about yourself.

OP I wonder if the problem is that you’re giving too much too soon? If men are getting sex before they’ve really bothered to get to know you or put any effort in then, there’s less incentive to stick around.

I had a 3 month rule for sex (PIV) to weed out the ones that weren’t interested in me as a person. I told them upfront. It meant they had to put in consistent effort before being ‘rewarded’ with anything else. The result was that those with whom I was not compatible fell away in a matter of weeks and those who kept going developed feelings for me and had a genuine connection by the time things got physical and so it turned into a proper relationship. Just an idea as it worked for me.

They're just showing how happy they are 🤷‍♂️

Don't let your mind go down that sort of route, or you will end up bitter about other people's happiness.

If it's any consolation to you, I'm a lot older than you and have the same problem.

I think it is easier for some men (and women) to have casual relationships without committing. People can get emotional support from casual relationships too in some cases so they don't feel the need to commit.

I know it is difficult not to take it personally when people your age are settling down. You won't be the only one

@MsLuxLisbon
its casting the net wider but also most single guys in their 20s/ early thirties are happily having fun, you might get more serious attention from slightly older men. My husband was divorced no kids: he could adult brilliantly and knew the drill with long relationships. Full head of hair, no fillings, physically fit and very very lovely kind and fun. 6 years older than me. You need somebody at the same life stage as you and most of these dudes are prob not there yet. And on the meantime the OP is getting more and more fed up.

I’m sorry but that’s really creepy. Sex is not a reward.

You sound a bit like me in my 20s. Only had one serious relationship when I was very young and every guy I dated would end up marrying the woman that came along after me or I was the rebound. I was even told by a male ‘friend’ that I was the girl to have fun with but not marry (even though a few years earlier he claimed to have been in love with me all along after my friend broke up with him). I always seemed to be the warm up act or the distraction. It was very disheartening as you say because I was constantly told I was doing the right things (attractive, funny, educated, hard worker, looked after myself) but it just never seemed to do the trick and I felt very much ‘left on the shelf’.

In the end I decided I’d rather be alone than with the wrong person and eventually accepted that the right person didn’t look like they were coming along any time soon. I was fully prepared to be single forever and working towards making myself self sufficient. I decided I’d better keep my toe dipped in the pool so I wouldn’t be wondering ‘what if’. I was absolutely ruthless with sifting out time wasters on OLD and very clear with what I wanted. Luckily my partner turned up and ticked (almost) every box. I’m very happy. Feed back Ive had from guys I know is that I’m nice but I also have a ‘don’t fuck with me’ vibe, which is intimidating. But also kept away the kind of men I didn’t want to bother with - just turned out to be a bigger % than I thought.

I suppose my advice is to make peace with it, But be open to possibilities while standing firm on what matters to you. Good luck.

I think you need to believe and accept that there’s really nothing wrong with you and the rejection from the guys things didn’t work out with are just a part of life. When you reflect on those relationships, would you have been happy spending the rest of your life with them? If not, then just chalk them down to experience and take the learning. I think because there are so many bad relationships out there (and you said your previous long term relationship partner was abusive and cheated), it’s easy to set low standards by seeing basic things like fidelity and lack of abuse as a maximum standard rather than a baseline. But if you plan to spend the rest of your life with the other person, there does need to be mutual respect and connection as well. So it’s ok if either of you discover early on that you’re not suited to each other, it’s a good thing. It does seem like in the past you have committed too quickly to people who weren’t committed to you. I think you need to accept and understand that you are worth committing to and don’t allow people to take you for granted.
None of this guarantees that you will find a suitable person (which is a lot to do with time and chance), but it does mean you’ll be happier in yourself and have more fun looking and be in a healthier place and better able to recognise when you do meet the right person who you connect with and also recognises your value to them.

This would be a red flag to any self-respecting man.

Being told 'you need to put in consistent effort before being rewarded' sounds like what a boss would say to somebody selling vacuums cleaners in Curry's.

What do you mean letting him down?

Dating is dating. They decide they don’t want to pursue anything further, that’s not letting anyone down. That’s how dating works.

Of course there’s differences. But it is a like for like comparison. Any man who nobody wanted to date for more than 2 months wouldn’t be told it’s because he is too good.

i also notice you didn’t answer what makes a woman ‘mediocre’.

There’s no problem with Op being confident in who she is. But when you have to resort to calling other women mediocre, to make op feel better, not good advice and it’s not helpful. And it’s likely not to be true.

Very true.

It could be depression.

That will lead to very negative, hopeless, extreme thinking.

I’m not sure what it is, you’ve said you’re independent, good looking, physically fit, not giving off desperation vibes.…could it be your personality?

I have to disagree with those who suggest only dating older and how men in their 20s don't want to commit. My longest and most committed relationships were with 20 something year olds. Most of the older men I've been with are already jaded by past relationships/marriages themselves and are reluctant to settle down again because of custody battles, financial battles, divorce and having to move out of the family home etc. Spent most of my life dating older men who weren't out to settle down, I'm now living with a 26 year old man who has an amazing relationship with my son and wants to marry me (I'm a lot older)!

Honestly OP I don't think you have said anything unreasonable here.

I also get sick of my coupled up friends saying 'just work on yourself!!! It'll come when you least expect it!!' - meanwhile they're not the ones having to face rejection, disrespect, crap dates over and over. If their relationships ended they'd feel like life was over, meanwhile I've had 5 relationship 'endings' in the past several years.

And a good chunk of women ARE socialised to say/do the right things to attract and keep a man. It's the way society is - get a job, attract a man, get married, have kids. Shouldn't be that way but it is.
All my friends are intelligent and successful, yet the majority of our conversations end up being about men - have you found one, what's yours doing wrong today, are you getting engaged etc. I have several friends who, when in a relationship, become completely disinterested in having nights out - so those nights out we had were always mainly about finding a man.

I am, like you, attractive and successful. People tell me I'm funny. Loads of hobbies and interests. I'm kind and thoughtful.. but it's a combination of luck of the draw, and whether or not you're willing to put up with the same shit your peers do.

On the outside one of my friends seems blissfully happy, but she has to get up in the morning to make her partner's lunch (as though he's 6) despite them BOTH working full time. She does everything in the house. Another's partner has completely gone off sex and won't tell her why - complete head in the sand. Another's has cheated. Another's doesn't ever want to spend any quality time together. I wouldn't have any of the above.
These are only the gorgeous, intelligent, successful women I know well enough to see the inside of their relationship - how many shit relationships are there in reality?

I had a refreshing conversation with my married sister the other day, with her basically summarizing the above - it's not all it's cracked up to be. You're seeing the highlight reel of everyone's life but a percentage will be miserable for one reason or another.

Carry on as you are, don't settle, and do it with the knowledge that the grass isn't greener on the other side. I know how you feel as I am exactly the same some days, but it's really not worth stressing over

I think more people are choosing to be single than you might realise, although it’s still kind of frowned upon in general.
I’ve always preferred being single but while dating (sporadically) had a similar experience as you have with men - my first boyfriend was the only one who was clearly in love with me (mutual) and everyone else since then was just… “eh”.
I am sorry you haven’t found someone who really digs you, though, I do appreciate that is frustrating and upsetting.

I agree with previous posters about casting your net wider in terms of age. I met my DH, after being single for five years, when I was 28 and he was 39. We met through a shared interest. Married 34 years.

What makes a person mediocre is having limited ambition, intelligence, attractiveness, charisma, interest.