To resent that my future depends on whether a man deems me good enough

[Iwilldrawjapan]

The main source of my mental health problems has been men.
I'm 33 years old and except for my very first boyfriend aged 18, who I left when I was 20, no guy has ever fallen madly in love with me.

I'm fully aware I don't need a man in my life to be happy but I'm only human and it's natural to want a connection with somebody. Not that it's attractive to admit that, mind. You're supposed to not be looking at all and absolutely love being single until someone unexpectedly falls into your lap, otherwise you're 'desperate'.

I'd be ok with it if more people chose to be single, however I hardly know anyone who's single, every bloody person I know is with someone, especially at this age, this is the worst age for me.

Men like me and find me attractive, they just don't want to date me seriously/don't want to marry me/just don't fall in love.

Everyone seems to have some guy become absolutely obsessed with them and just really want to marry them.
Guys mainly use me for an ego boost but I'm just not the one for them.

People sprout mindless fucking clichés at me all the time 'Oh it'll happen when you least expect it!' well here's the thing, I'm not 'expecting' it at all, and guess what, nobody's fallen into my lap.

'Just go online!' like it's that easy, it really isn't.
I'm attractive physically, I have stuff going for me, I travel, I am financially independent, I own property, I have hobbies, good family relationship, I have friends. In other areas of my life all is great.

I'm really not desperate, I'm sure someone will be along to tell me I'm coming across as desperate but I have turned down men too, I would not date just anyone.
My standards are not too high, either. If anything I'm very likely considered out of these men's leagues. They're just very ordinary, average men, but I liked them.

People I've dated have either not wanted a relationship after 2 months, or not wanted a bigger commitment after a few years.

Life isn't fair I guess, people will tell me to 'love myself first ' and all the usual crap. Having 10,000 hobbies is no replacement for a happy relationship. I'm sick of seeing the happy couple photos on Facebook, posing with their husband and holding the baby.

Maybe I will meet someone, but for 13 years I've had bad luck. I've never been anyone's 'one'.

I can't have a child alone, I don't have local family, I can't afford to be a single parent financially or otherwise, period.

Honestly, my mental health has been shot to pieces. Life still has meaning, but it's unfair that I'm deprived of what seems to come so easily to other people.

Someone going out of their way to make you feel bad is about them not you. But unpleasant, I know.

But I am guessing there will have been at least a few posters who were the same people who commented on the first thread. it’s not always the same group of people.

and it would really depend on what you said in the thread. Context is everything.

I've chosen single life, I'm also reasonably attractive, have had a few boyfriends and short flings but I decided most men annoy me so 🤷‍♀️

That said I do have a dd, I found out I was pregnant after one of the above short flings and have raised dd on my own.

On line dating has worked for all my close friends, all four of my best friends met their husbands via OLD. I think it's a numbers game though and you have to be persistent.

Someone asked me about actually wanting a boyfriend. I just can't imagine being single forever, not saying that will be the case.
I don't desperately need someone at all. It's just about trying to not take consistent rejection so badly, it does leave you a bit jaded.

I have been married twice both were brutal and ended on divorce with abuse as I didn’t value or know myself or my worth. Aged 40 I had two children and thought who would want me…. A single slightly overweight mum of two Sen kids who works full time and is knackered. I did loads of therapy on me- my worth it cost me thousands I didn’t have over 3 years the result - finally I got it I started to find me - what I liked - art music etc and when I started dating I was NOT looking for something I knew what I didn’t want. Someone self centred - who didn’t engage and ask me replies - delete. I wanted a reader. Physical looks I put totally outside the box. Yes I didn’t want a heavy drinker or a smoker was a big no or drugs etc but I was open. Each date got at least one date unless he was dire. It was all about conversation and value. I met my boyfriend online and we texted, phoned and talked and laughed. We both come with history. He is ‘not my type’ he’s 6 ft and slightly overweight like me, 55 and has a son who is 25. We got to know each other first / but by date 4 I was in love with him and what we were doing together. I know he is my forever. He writes me poetry sometimes, we do the crossword but he is 100% kind and loves me so deeply - it’s just taken me 50 years to find him.

OP, you seem to want all so - called alpha and beta charisteristics in one man.
Not gonna happen.
Mr Steady is often not sexy. Mr Sexy is often not steady.
Even if he is both, you'll have the headache of other women wanting him, too. My grandmothers got what they wanted but having to be constantly aware of the competition wore them down.

The key to getting rid of your frustration is in accepting that no matter who you get there'll be a trade off.
So my advice to you is to make the guys who are currently invisible to you visible and give them a chance.
Most people settle, remember that.

You have summed this up perfectly for me in one sentence. Who will give me a hug when I wake up upset?

Harassment was the wrong word.

What I mean is, you just seemed SO unwilling to accept he wasn't interested, and wouldn't listen to anyone who pointed it out.

I hear you.. I think I’m a good person but I’m never chosen. I left an alcoholic after 3 years but before him literally no one ever wanted me.. shortly after I
met the most amazing man I really thought he was the one, I was even quite close to his daughter as he was a single dad.. but No it never goes that way for me. 😞 He met a Columbian woman, he can’t even have a conversation with and chose her. We live quite close to each other and I see her with the life I could have only dream about...
I can’t even face trying anymore.. the only ones that “want” me are just because they have no where to go post divorce ect

Oh absolutely, like I said I am not by any means going for the good-looking men who have it all. None of them have been high earners, geniuses or models, anything of the sort.
On the other hand, you have to fancy the person. You can't force yourself to be intimate with someone you are not attracted to, that's not fair on anyone.

I get that it's hard, but you are not as unusual as you think. Around 30% of adults in the UK live alone and they can't all be widowed/in non cohabiting relationships.

I'm going to be a bit blunter than most on here OP, because I think people are trying to be nice to you and its getting in the way of them giving you good advice.

Men generally aren't picky. If women have maybe 1 in 300 men they could happily spend their lives with, for us its probably 1 in 30 women.

So if you're really struggling this much to find someone who likes you, then there has to be something about you that's putting them off. So lets go through what men are usually looking for in a partner. (Obviously I'm massively generalising here. All men are different)

Physical attraction - We'll skip this one, as you say you're having no trouble getting men to have sex with you.

Someone to spend time with - Are you not available enough, do they only get to see you once a week? And when you do see each other, what do you do? Go out, stay in? Generally men are looking for someone to do stuff with. Most of us are content by ourselves sat at home, with a partner we're looking for someone to share experiences with.

Sexual compatibility - Are you boring in bed? I'm not talking whips and chains and toys etc, but the basics. The number of women who just lie there and expect the bloke to do all the work and thinks that that's enough is nuts.

Fun - We want someone we can have fun with, a good chat, joke with. We'll get very bored very quickly if our partner doesn't engage with us or sits on their phone all night.

Affection - Men are generally starved of this. We want hugs damn it. We're generally much more starved of physical affection than most women. So having a girlfriend who doesn't show any affection outside of sex, physical or emotional is likely to put us off quite quickly.

On the flip side, men aren't looking for things like:

Hard work - We generally feel like relationships should be easy. We're far more likely to leave someone who starts arguments, or tries to control us than women are. (This is a good thing, and something women should do more of, rather than men do less)

Self absorption - We want someone who is interested in us, rather than someone who talks about themselves all the time.

Drama - Anyone who constantly has issues with other people gets dropped rather quickly

Commitment - Men in their 20s at least aren't looking long term. They're not looking for someone to move in with, to marry, to have kids with. We have far longer to do those things than women do. When these things happen, its usually because of outside pressure rather than us pushing them forward. A woman looking to move forward too quickly will scare us off (This one will be less of an issue now that you've hit your 30s, men in their 30s are starting to look at settling down)

I don't know which (if any) applies to you, neither does anyone else on here. And feel free to tell me to piss off if I've touched a nerve, and I will. You may well be doing absolutely nothing wrong, and just have bad luck, but if the only common denominator in all these failed relationships is you, it's worth doing some self reflection.

Where do you live? I know so many single/ dating 30 somethings. I met my husband at 30. My sister met her partner at 35.

You not like people saying it, but I can’t see, logically, that you aren’t desperate.

Desperate means that you badly want something to happen- this is true. Desperate means you are upset and frustrated when something doesn’t happen - also true. Maybe you should own it. I was desperate! I was 30 and really wanted to meet a partner. I even told my now husband that I was really keen to get married and have kids on our second date. I definitely pestered him to propose, he just laughed and told me we would be soon if I wanted to. I even encouraged him to get going trying for a baby - we compromised, brought our wedding forward but still waited until after.

Anyway, I’m happily married with kids, have lots of interests, friends etc.

you do have to make contingencies though- it might not happen. So what the plan? I planned to move abroad for work(easy to do for me) to a place it wouldn’t be practical to take children. Even now I have contingencies for if my relationship does work - I have my own savings and make sure we overpay our mortgage (expensive area, so I know with our equity we’d both be able to buy elsewhere).

Think OP has included stuff about having hobbies etc and dating average guys to head off all the inevitable questions about whether she is truly fulfilled or hankering after people ‘out of her league’ and it has been misconstrued as defensive and maybe a bit haughty.

Only advice I can give from being in a similar position based on the reasons you have said other things ended is that when you feel a bit beaten down you can try to overcompensate by being very pleasant and amenable which can come across as inauthentic and bland. Remember you only need to meet one and the earlier you ‘scare off’ the ones that are wrong for you the better. I know it is trite but there is some cliche advice I heard somewhere that if you knew you were say 25 ‘no’s’ away from a ‘yes’ you would be trying to get those ‘no’s’ as quickly as possible!stay strong!

In that case it could be worth ruling it out completely for now and breaking the cycle, especially if it’s damaging your mental health. Get that cat(s) you were talking about. I’m not saying ‘work on yourself and learn to love yourself’ and all that bullshit, I’m just saying wrap yourself up, shield yourself for a while and enjoy the feeling of being loved by something instead of rejected. It’s what I did for the sake of my sanity. Literally. I was so broken by an abusive relationship I tried to take my life, and there was no way I was opening myself up to that again.

The only one was my very first boyfriend, but I bet even he would've left.

This is significant. How do you feel about him now? Do you think you would benefit from counselling to get to the bottom of it? First relationships can be so important. Perhaps you expected and assumed a long and happy relationship, just like your parents, and it was a shock when your first relationship just ended.

I was single for years and I remember thinking no one was in to me but when I look back they weren’t the slightest bit suitable, I just felt hurt that they didn’t want to be with me but the reality was that I was trying to convince myself I was in to them when I wasn’t. After ten years of being single I had two nine month relationships, both utter arsewipes in the end. But I walked away from both and I realised actually I must believe in myself more than I think if I can walk away despite the loneliness and all my friends were in couples and I stopped getting invited to things! Fast forward to 37 and I met ‘the one’. I was at a really low point and I honestly thought there’s no way I could meet someone when in that mindset but I did and I finally realised I didn’t have to love myself completely to meet someone or be perfect etc etc, the right person can actually help you work through things too. We had a baby together four years later. So as much as you hate the when you least expect it cliche it can be true! As others have said immerse yourself in stuff that makes you happy, people in relationships will always miss something about being single and visa versa. I travelled quite a bit when I was single, I used to spend my money eating alone at beautiful restaurants abroad it was really fun, I do miss that!! 😆

Random thought, do you make time for someone when you start seeing them? You sound really busy, doesn't leave much time for a relationship I would think?

Hut this is exactly why you need therapy @Iwilldrawjapan - you are missing the point. You're making this all about you, it is almost certainly about they guys,. It isn't that you "aren't good enough" (whatever the fuck that means), but they ar not r ady, don't fall for you etc.

You sound very angry, which won't be helping people connect with you. I would suggest finding your peace would be mor helpful than this flywheel of anger and frustration l.

For info, I'm single, in my mid 40s, have had several LTRs but they have all wanted more but I haven't. I'm also objectively very successful, financially independent, funny, many guys say I'm attractive, a good friend, want to sleep with me etc, but frankly they aren't good enough for me/don't float my boat, so onwards I go. I know you don't want to hear it but better alone than badly accompanied and life is what you make it but depending on someone else to validate your self esteem is risky and will always leave you vulnerable.

A few things come to mind.

One is - have you tried being choosier? Average men who you would consider might be intimidated by how together you and your life are. Why not contact men OLD who you might consider out of your league and see where that takes you?

The other is - are the ways you fill your life giving you opportunities to meet men? If your friends are all couples, you need to hang out with more singles, male and female. Are the sports/fitness/hobbies you do appealing to men and are they conducive to mingling? If you hike, cycle, rock climb, or do a dance that needs a partner you are more likely to meet suitable men than if you just do a circuit of the gym or go to pilates and zumba. Do your interests allow for flow of newcomers or are they a fixed set of the same people each week?

The third is a bit odd but, have you thought hard about what you really want most from a man - apart from the obvious things of sharing a life, maybe having a family. What kind of life do you want - a very outdoorsy one - wild camping every weekend? An arty one, going off to exhibitions in London and Paris? Intense conversations or silly banter? Reading to each other at night, digging an allotment together or going out partying all night long? Trad roles or reverse - do you want to be main wage earner and find a stay at home man who would make a good dad?

Whatever the quirky things are that you seek beyond the obvious usual stuff, make sure that side of you is very well expressed when you meet people. If you know the kind of life you really want with a man, exaggerate that side of yourself and it might attract the right person. DH said he wanted someone he could be silly with. He told me when he said that to a previous date she just pulled a face. But one thing that made me fall madly in love with him was him singing a silly song he'd made up quietly in my ear during a very glitzy celeb-filled party. He's actually a very reserved, serious-looking man, but had decided as a NY resolution to be more himself after always being the man who women wanted as a mate not a partner. We got together just a week later.

You sound lovely, desirable, intelligent - a catch. Show the slightly more extreme or unusual sides of yourself, don't be scared of being attracted to men you think are beyond your reach rather than trying to coax yourself to be open to men who have less to offer than you do. (DH was very successful in a glamorous job when we met - I was earning minimum wage. On paper I would have thought, no, I won't be his type but we just never stopped talking from the day we met.)

And what do men offer in return?? Also, how do you define 'self absorbed'? I don't want to hear some man bore on and on about his hobbies either, if a man thinks I'm going to sit quiet while he drones on about football or war planes or whatever then's he's got another think coming.

OP I'm so sorry you are feeling jaded. It's a hard road and hard that it all feels so victim.blamy when all you are trying to do is date! Afew thoughts.

You have focused on what makes you "good enough for someone to want". But what kind of man - in reality- do YOU want?

You have expressed two views about men here. First that sort of scores out of ten mentality - a kind of ladder thing - some are gorgeous and tall and lawyers and filled with hobbies and rich, some are "medium" ordinary types. It's very externally validating, not internally. It's all about what you think the outer signs of compatibility can be. You're right, things like shared ambition and income are helpful but they are not the kernal of why we love. What men make you feel comfortable in their company? What men do you have an instinctive sense of knowing, or sensing what they're like? Like female friends, which ones just seem on your wavelength?

The second view is that they are doing all the choosing, you're sort of holding your breath and reserving your own judgement, making yourself available and waiting for them to choose you. I was quite shocked in your original post at saying you want someone to fall for you, to be obsessed with you, to fall in love with you. That's never what I have thought! And I've had the usual ups and downs with men, long and short term things, periods of being single, etc.

How about- you want to be able to fall in love with someone? You want a man who sees and understands you so well that you could love him. That man who you will want to throw your life in with his because his emotional world fits so well with your own. Someone who understands your pain and strengths and someone for whom you feel compassionate towards their pain and admire their strengths.

You're sort of saying "OK you're nice, attractive, let's date, OK off we go let's commit, do you want to?" without really checking in with your own soul. So I worry you attract people who do want to connect with you, but you're not really letting them see the real you. If I was a man, I would find it hard to want to commit to someone who is sort of on their best behaviour in the relationship, or holding back part of themselves to try and ensure that I like them. It might mean , sure, there's nothing I hate - but there might be nothing I love either, nothing raw or authentic, nothing that challenges me and puts me on my mettle and makes me think wow, this woman is looking for a man like X, I would like to be that man.

I'm not saying that's what you're doing but I get a whiff of it and it might be worth checking. Basically falling in love is a high emotional stakes game of revealing what you really want, in a gradual way. If you don't reveal it, if you don't screen out those who cannot give you it; or indeed if what you really want is "adequate man with pulse" ; you probably won't get it.

You do come across as desperate and angry.
Take a step back. Maybe join a group where you'll meet like minded people.

@Meadowwild said what I was trying to say in a far better and more practical way.

You say you aren't desperate, but I'm afraid that's exactly how you're coming across. It gives the impression that you need a man for validation - I was also like this at one time. Difference is I was late teens, early 20's. Not 30's. I've matured since then and am much happier/confident/content/strong when I'm single. I do have children though - they were what ultimately turned it around for me. And you can have children when you're single, despite it being frowned upon by the majority of people. I was never going to let me becoming a mum depend on me being in a relationship.
But first, I'd highly recommend that you have therapy - I can see you're on the waiting list for it - and the sooner that comes the better.

@Bobbotgegrinch I really don’t see how your list will help OP. Women don’t want boring self-absorbed men, who offer bad sex, little affection and tons of drama either. It’s pretty universal and not typical of men.