To think Jewish people are the scapegoats of humanity?

[FactsNotFictionOnly]

I have not posted on the CITME board as although the current conflict is relevant, that is not the main point of this thread.

I do not mean to cause any offence to Jewish people. In fact the opposite.

IF THIS POST IS DELETED BECAUSE IT OFFENDS NON JEWISH PEOPLE, THEN PLEASE RESPOND WITH WHY YOU FIND IT OFFENSIVE BEFORE REPORTING.

I am an atheist and think all religion should be consigned to history books so have no affiliation with any faith but I found the reaction to Oct 7th shocking with almost immediate protests against Israel (the victim) in favour of the ‘freedom fighters’ (the agressors). The denials that atrocities happened, the antisemitism, horrifying comments on SM which are still allowed to stand to this day.

Never before in my life (and I’m getting on a bit) have I seen that reaction of hatred to any country that has been the victim of any kind of terrorist attack or act of war anywhere in the world. Never before have I been aware of the kind of atrocities committed in Israel on such a large scale by a neighbouring country, filmed by the perpetrators, either.

I had heard comments made about ‘the Jews’ at various stages in my life, how they run the world, the banks, the media etc but never really thought much about it or believed it.

I noticed an absolutely blatant lie that popped up on SM yesterday with thousands of comments agreeing with the poster so I responded (never normally do) saying so with evidence and the abuse I got was unbelievable.

That made me do a bit more research on the persecution of Jewish people through history and I was pretty shocked that they were blamed for the death of Jesus, murdering Christian children as sacrifices to be baked into flatbreads, the Black Death, World War 1, 9/11, Covid. All totally false and a lot of the time because it was a way of debtors not paying money they owed to the Jewish people who were the world’s money lenders as it was prohibited in Christianity and Islam and Jewish people were prohibited from other work.

Each time they were blamed for something whole communities were burned to death or had to flee. They were banished from England in the 12th century as well as lots of other European countries. Now I understand why there is so much hatred from the UK and Europeans as these ‘legends’ persist.

Of course in the Middle East from 586 BC they were persecuted where they were killed, forced to convert to Christianity (or pretend to to stay alive) before Islam took over, treated as 2nd class citizens, subject to high taxes and strict rules, regular pogroms and were also forced to leave their homes in their hundreds of thousands.

This was all before a return to Israel was even a thing so there was no ‘Zionism’ then which is currently the excuse for the widespread hatred of Jewish people.

Even before this current conflict there seems to have been a deliberate misunderstanding of the situation in the Middle East with a lot of relevant history missed out out.

Such as the Ottoman Empire ruled the area directly before the Mandate of Palestine and they referred to it as Southern Syria. There were no Palestinians only Arabs. Why didn’t they ‘freedom fight’ the Ottomans for their own State as surely they were occupied under the Ottomans too if they believe the land is all theirs?

I have never seen references to Palestinians being ‘occupied’ by the British either. Weird as they believe the land is theirs and always was theirs - from the River to the Sea.

Why do a lot of people ignore the constant terrorist attacks as the reason why not only Israel, but Egypt too, had to blockade Gaza after a terrorist group with a known mandate to annihilate Israel and kill Jews was elected to govern it by it’s citizens?

Why are people not understanding that this war is not a ‘normal’ war with normal rules of engagement between two uniformed military forces where civilians are afforded protection by their government, military hardware, munitions and bases are placed outside of civilian areas and civilians including children are not involved in military action by firing rockets, RPGs, shootings, stabbings, throwing IEDs, holding hostages in their homes and taking part in barbaric murders, rapes, burning people including children alive and taking hostages?

It is absolutely horrific that civilians have been killed in such a high number or at all but a lot of the deaths can be explained as above and are all due to the war Hamas started.

Why are Hamas not being publicly pressured by Palestinian protestors to give themselves up?

The only (and tiny) Jewish State in the world is now even being persecuted for defending itself against massive neighbouring states who want to wipe it out.

Has there ever been such a forensic examination of any other war while in progress as in this one?

The propaganda and false information circulating before and during this conflict has made it all too clear to see how the Holocaust happened and it’s terrifying to see. I used to watch films on the subject and wonder how could so many people have stood by and let it happen. Now we can all see how.

How can a tiny race of 1% of the population who have achieved more than any other race alive today, be so hated.

Is it jealousy of their success or the hundreds of years of lies that have been brainwashed down generations?

AIBU?

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/why-were-jews-persecuted

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

You are the one that is making it so that its only the rape of one type of woman in war that is worth discussing.

Sexual violence as a weapon of war is ALWAYS to be condemned in the highest way.

But were you doing this when there was evidence of it being used on Palestinian women and girls in captivity before October 7th?

This is typical deflection by the pro Israeli side, we can ever talk about their civilians and victims of war. Never others.

Sheez.
I'm out now.
All I can say is OP, YANBU and after what I've read this thread, I'm disgusted at the anti-semitism not even barely concealed in some posts.

Thank fuck I'm not Jewish. I feel for you all.

Again, where is the anti-Semitism? Why is it anti-Semitic to point out that in this conflict one crime has been mentioned far more than the other. Particularly here.

@Aladdinzane

But were you doing this when there was evidence of it being used on Palestinian women and girls in captivity before October 7th?

Were you?

Indeed I was.

I have been a part of organisations that campaign against human rights abuses globally for years, as well as volunteering for others that provide medical care in the most needed areas, which often discusses and makes issues of rape being used as weapons of war, as well as fundraising for a charity which provides help to women and girls in War zones.

So yes, I was.

Thanks

Yup!

Sorry, missed that, who were you condemning for atrocities against Palestinian women and girls in captivity before October 7th?

the IDF in general, Amnesty and other organisations had records of it.

However it also happens in almost every other conflict too, which is why supplies of the morning after pill were so important in Ukraine.

So as someone who "has been a part of organisations that campaign against human rights abuses globally for years, as well as volunteering for others that provide medical care in the most needed area "

you ignored Hamas's treatement of Palestinians prior to October 7th.

Thanks for clearing that up.

You are now playing some game of your own, of course you can criticise Hamas's treatment of women and girls at the same time.

But that's not what you asked is it? You've taken the answer and produced your own result.

Still not good at this I see?

I am not claiming to speak on behalf of Jewish people though am I?

I am speaking as part of one of the groups who these accusations are against.

We are TOLD that we're all anti-Semitic if we have a problem with the actions of Israel. We are constantly TOLD that we only think this or that because we hate Jewish people and it's all do with hating Jewish people and that's that.

So other people are speaking for my group, not the other way around.

And what they're saying is wrong.

I don't go calling all the people who are Pro-Israel anti-Muslim.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crgggwg158do

During this thread, synagogue & churches attacked in Russia - but, it's in our heads.

It's beyond reason. It's the world's oldest hatred.

Stop amplifying the extremists & emboldening the antisémites.

If you're being told you're being anti-Semitic it's quite probable that it's not because of the fact you're criticising Israel's actions but rather how you're choosing to criticise Israel. There are ways of doing it without being anti-Semitic, it's just that lots and lots of people really struggle with it because of their innate anti-Semitic views. I don't know if that's the case with you, but it definitely is with a lot of people all over social media including MN.

Someone who's met one (!) Jewish person in their whole life is very likely to have some gaps in their knowledge.

That's one of the problems though isn't it.

There don't appear to be ways of doing it without being called anti-Semitic, as the ICC and ICJ and other countries who have said they would recognise a Palestinian state have found. As aid agencies and fucking Medicines Sans Frontier are too.

This has also happened during the course of this thread.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjqq5n8911do

No, there is definitely a way. I do it quite frequently. People in Israel do it all the time. Like, aaaaaall the time. It's really not hard provided you're not anti-Semitic.

Anti-semitism is bad. But, you need to read up on the history of Israel. I'm doing that right now -The History of Israel The creation of the State of Israel involved violence, and the forcing of Arabs from their villages. Those who remained were put under military occupation. That was in 1948. There's been a whole lot of violence, and resistance, since.

Hamas did not start this war. Israelis were the ones who stole a land and made it their own. Who wouldn't fight for that?

Funny, that people and organisations outside of Israel don't seem to be able to do it without attracting that accusation though isn't it?

You really struggle with talking about anti-Semitism, don't you? Why is that? Why can't you discuss anti-Semitism without talking about Israel? It's really not ok to conflate the two, which I'm pretty sure was mentioned to you several hours ago.

I’m Jewish. I’m just going to repeat some of what I wrote earlier this afternoon on the thread

Criticism of the actions of the state of Israel does not equal anti-zionism or anti-semitism. As above, the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Israel (i.e. the core zionistic belief) does not mean it should be at the exclusion of other people peacefully co-existing in Israel. Valid criticisms can be made of the way Arabs and Jews are currently integrated within the State of Israel, and in fact, the state must and should be open to hearing and addressing criticism.

Similarly, criticising how the war is conducted, is not anti-zionism or anti-semitic. Where the lines are blurred, however, is calling for an end to the State of Israel, holding all Jews worldwide accountable for the actions of the Israeli government, holocaust inversion, and the use of certain very specific anti-semitic tropes when criticising the state of Israel.

I'm not in Israel. I manage it just fine.

I asked you specifically who you were criticising before October 7th for their treatment of Palestinian women and girls. You didn't say Hamas did you.

Still trying deflect and to throw insults I see.

Agree - it is really surprising that such an accusation is levelled at the ICJ, ICC, MSF etc. which is why so many people question what is being used as the definition.