To think Jewish people are the scapegoats of humanity?

[FactsNotFictionOnly]

I have not posted on the CITME board as although the current conflict is relevant, that is not the main point of this thread.

I do not mean to cause any offence to Jewish people. In fact the opposite.

IF THIS POST IS DELETED BECAUSE IT OFFENDS NON JEWISH PEOPLE, THEN PLEASE RESPOND WITH WHY YOU FIND IT OFFENSIVE BEFORE REPORTING.

I am an atheist and think all religion should be consigned to history books so have no affiliation with any faith but I found the reaction to Oct 7th shocking with almost immediate protests against Israel (the victim) in favour of the ‘freedom fighters’ (the agressors). The denials that atrocities happened, the antisemitism, horrifying comments on SM which are still allowed to stand to this day.

Never before in my life (and I’m getting on a bit) have I seen that reaction of hatred to any country that has been the victim of any kind of terrorist attack or act of war anywhere in the world. Never before have I been aware of the kind of atrocities committed in Israel on such a large scale by a neighbouring country, filmed by the perpetrators, either.

I had heard comments made about ‘the Jews’ at various stages in my life, how they run the world, the banks, the media etc but never really thought much about it or believed it.

I noticed an absolutely blatant lie that popped up on SM yesterday with thousands of comments agreeing with the poster so I responded (never normally do) saying so with evidence and the abuse I got was unbelievable.

That made me do a bit more research on the persecution of Jewish people through history and I was pretty shocked that they were blamed for the death of Jesus, murdering Christian children as sacrifices to be baked into flatbreads, the Black Death, World War 1, 9/11, Covid. All totally false and a lot of the time because it was a way of debtors not paying money they owed to the Jewish people who were the world’s money lenders as it was prohibited in Christianity and Islam and Jewish people were prohibited from other work.

Each time they were blamed for something whole communities were burned to death or had to flee. They were banished from England in the 12th century as well as lots of other European countries. Now I understand why there is so much hatred from the UK and Europeans as these ‘legends’ persist.

Of course in the Middle East from 586 BC they were persecuted where they were killed, forced to convert to Christianity (or pretend to to stay alive) before Islam took over, treated as 2nd class citizens, subject to high taxes and strict rules, regular pogroms and were also forced to leave their homes in their hundreds of thousands.

This was all before a return to Israel was even a thing so there was no ‘Zionism’ then which is currently the excuse for the widespread hatred of Jewish people.

Even before this current conflict there seems to have been a deliberate misunderstanding of the situation in the Middle East with a lot of relevant history missed out out.

Such as the Ottoman Empire ruled the area directly before the Mandate of Palestine and they referred to it as Southern Syria. There were no Palestinians only Arabs. Why didn’t they ‘freedom fight’ the Ottomans for their own State as surely they were occupied under the Ottomans too if they believe the land is all theirs?

I have never seen references to Palestinians being ‘occupied’ by the British either. Weird as they believe the land is theirs and always was theirs - from the River to the Sea.

Why do a lot of people ignore the constant terrorist attacks as the reason why not only Israel, but Egypt too, had to blockade Gaza after a terrorist group with a known mandate to annihilate Israel and kill Jews was elected to govern it by it’s citizens?

Why are people not understanding that this war is not a ‘normal’ war with normal rules of engagement between two uniformed military forces where civilians are afforded protection by their government, military hardware, munitions and bases are placed outside of civilian areas and civilians including children are not involved in military action by firing rockets, RPGs, shootings, stabbings, throwing IEDs, holding hostages in their homes and taking part in barbaric murders, rapes, burning people including children alive and taking hostages?

It is absolutely horrific that civilians have been killed in such a high number or at all but a lot of the deaths can be explained as above and are all due to the war Hamas started.

Why are Hamas not being publicly pressured by Palestinian protestors to give themselves up?

The only (and tiny) Jewish State in the world is now even being persecuted for defending itself against massive neighbouring states who want to wipe it out.

Has there ever been such a forensic examination of any other war while in progress as in this one?

The propaganda and false information circulating before and during this conflict has made it all too clear to see how the Holocaust happened and it’s terrifying to see. I used to watch films on the subject and wonder how could so many people have stood by and let it happen. Now we can all see how.

How can a tiny race of 1% of the population who have achieved more than any other race alive today, be so hated.

Is it jealousy of their success or the hundreds of years of lies that have been brainwashed down generations?

AIBU?

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/why-were-jews-persecuted

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

But you do repeat points that have been used as propaganda.

Oh, you mean when I was making a point about you trusting certain posters' and their hearsay but then dismissing others? I was just pointing out your absolute hypocrisy.

I think she had a point.
Why have the Palestinians and Arabs repeatedly denied peace?

Why did Hamas break the ceasefire and has repeatedly refused further ceasefire??

Absolutely MrsSkylerWhite

@Aladdinzane

the overwhelming number Palestinians have genealogy which traces them back directly to the levant

keep going with the trace, what's further back?

Why did Hamas break the ceasefire and attack innocents in Israel then???

Why did Israel break international law on multiple occasions prior to 7th October? As the UN Secretary General said, whilst he condemned what happened on 7 Oct, it did not happen in a vacuum.

I'm sorry where's your study that traces further back from the Levant?

@Aladdinzane You speak of Jewish people "moving back". To move back implies it's somewhere they originated from. In their case, having left because of being forcibly expelled.

However, not all left. There's been a continuous Jewish presence in Israel for thousands of years.

I don't mean the people who have Jewish ancestry but converted to other religions over the centuries (although I suppose it's arguable that they are ethically Jewish, if looking at it from the view you posted previously, of genetic ancestry).

The weird thing I've noticed is that a lot of antisemitics in the UK or other western countries sometimes don't consider Jewish people to be British (or French or German or whichever country they're in) because their roots are Israel. Yet at the same time Jewish people are told by the same antisemites they're not allowed their homeland. They can't win.

I really don't want to derail this thread by focusing on Israel. Others are going out on about Israel and I wanted to reply. I do also think the Maori lady in the article I posted above, who was showing support for Israel, is right that some anti Israel attitudes stem from antisemitism.

I freely admit I'm new to the issues. I'm not Jewish and was naive about how prevalent antisemitism still is. It's shocked me. I don't get it and, like any racism, it's very depressing.

Bunnyasmyname

You are doing exactly what anti-semites are doing. You are conflating peaceful Palestinians trying to live their lives and raise their beloved children in the harshest of circumstances with Hamas terrorists.

Palestinian civilians are not Hamas, any more than peaceful Israeli citizens are war-mongering Israeli Government ministers.

Neither population deserves the despicable governing bodies they have the misfortune to live under.

I came across something on Twitter recently that I didn’t quite understand and clicked onto the users profile page. It was full of the most awful anti Jewish stuff - although conspiracy stuff of old, awful comments about what should happen to Jewish people ( you can imagine, very explicit stuff) post after post. I reported the profile plus another one of the same content and received a reply that the pages didn’t contravene Twitters rules. I resent them for offensive material/hate material and again got the same reply.

i am shocked at this.

On a separate but in my view, very important note my understanding of the Israel state is that it was land sold by local Arab owners to a Jewish family who were able to buy it. The business deal was formalised by the Balfour agreement but there was a straightforward sale of land deal brokered before between two business families. The land was not wanted, hard to farm, lacked water access and not used ( Negev?) It was developed largely through the kibbutzs over time that works as farms and found way to irrigate the land.

Very happy to be corrected but I really wanted to find credible sources that dealt with the mechanics of how Israel came to be and this one seemed legit ( will try and find it )

Exactly this

Again we have posters coming on a thread about anti-semitism to say it's basically justified because of Israeli political policy.

No clue about history, facts or anything relevant. Just lots of excuses and 'whataboutery'.

Frighteningly similar to the thread on the Feminist board about the appalling way the mass rapes of Jewish women have been viewed.

This x10. It is terrifying.

The majority of the Israeli population that is descended from an ancestor who moved there in the 20th century, a large majority of them after 1945.

"Yet at the same time Jewish people are told by the same anti-Semites they're not allowed their homeland."

Creating strawman arguments is not helpful.

"I do also think the Maori lady in the article I posted above, who was showing support for Israel, is right that some anti Israel attitudes stem from antisemitism."

And the Israeli governmet has accused international organisations and aid providers of antisemitism when they have been criticised and charged with war crimes, even when they charge Hamas with the same.

I used the term Levant as a geographic one rather than Palestine or Israel, its basically interchangeable and that's the term genealogists used for both returning Israeli Jews and Palestinians.

"everyone in the Levant is overwhelmingly descended from ancient Jews, or at the very least those genetically indistinguishable from ancient Jews."

do you agree with that or not?

Nope, the overwhelming number Palestinians have genealogy which traces them back directly to the levant,

I don't know if that's true as I'm still learning about the history, but if it is true, then like you said previously, those Palestinians are descendents of the Jewish people who were there thousands of years ago.

Like you said, many converted religion (sometimes because they were forced, sometimes by choice) but their ethnic origins are their Jewish ancestors.

So I guess one could say that Palestinians and Israelis are cousins. Same ancestors - the Jewish people who were there thousands of years ago.

Imagine having the audacity to actually type such utter filth

And the Israeli governmet has accused international organisations and aid providers of antisemitism

So have many other organisations, @Aladdinzane@Aladdinzane
Looking at the evidence reported, I'd say they were correct.

Funny, no one EVER talks about the Palestinian women being sexually assaulted by Israeli soldiers.

Palestinian citizens can be blamed for the actions of their government too.

They can have their right to self determination questioned and refused.

Israeli Politicians can call for the eradication of Palestinian citizens in the name of an extremist ideology.

Palestinians can be accused of being responsible for the actions of other Palestinian citizens

They get accused of making up the data on dead children/war crimes.

You think the ICC and others are anti-Semitic?

Funnily enough, its this dismissal of any critique of the actions of the Israeli government which makes it easier for people to question it when allegations of Anti-Semitism are used.

Of course people on the ground can be fearful, of course there has been an increase in casual usage of anti-Semitic terms and threats. This is terrible, but i can't be used to dismiss points of international law raised by international bodies, that have also made the same charges against Hamas.

Thanks for proving my point so absolutely perfectly.

Were you one of posters who had posts removed on other threads for being anti-semitic???

Glossing over the rapes of Jewish women... Hmm lemme guess.

@Aladdinzane

i think Israel soldiers mistreating Palestinian women is reported