To think Jewish people are the scapegoats of humanity?

[FactsNotFictionOnly]

I have not posted on the CITME board as although the current conflict is relevant, that is not the main point of this thread.

I do not mean to cause any offence to Jewish people. In fact the opposite.

IF THIS POST IS DELETED BECAUSE IT OFFENDS NON JEWISH PEOPLE, THEN PLEASE RESPOND WITH WHY YOU FIND IT OFFENSIVE BEFORE REPORTING.

I am an atheist and think all religion should be consigned to history books so have no affiliation with any faith but I found the reaction to Oct 7th shocking with almost immediate protests against Israel (the victim) in favour of the ‘freedom fighters’ (the agressors). The denials that atrocities happened, the antisemitism, horrifying comments on SM which are still allowed to stand to this day.

Never before in my life (and I’m getting on a bit) have I seen that reaction of hatred to any country that has been the victim of any kind of terrorist attack or act of war anywhere in the world. Never before have I been aware of the kind of atrocities committed in Israel on such a large scale by a neighbouring country, filmed by the perpetrators, either.

I had heard comments made about ‘the Jews’ at various stages in my life, how they run the world, the banks, the media etc but never really thought much about it or believed it.

I noticed an absolutely blatant lie that popped up on SM yesterday with thousands of comments agreeing with the poster so I responded (never normally do) saying so with evidence and the abuse I got was unbelievable.

That made me do a bit more research on the persecution of Jewish people through history and I was pretty shocked that they were blamed for the death of Jesus, murdering Christian children as sacrifices to be baked into flatbreads, the Black Death, World War 1, 9/11, Covid. All totally false and a lot of the time because it was a way of debtors not paying money they owed to the Jewish people who were the world’s money lenders as it was prohibited in Christianity and Islam and Jewish people were prohibited from other work.

Each time they were blamed for something whole communities were burned to death or had to flee. They were banished from England in the 12th century as well as lots of other European countries. Now I understand why there is so much hatred from the UK and Europeans as these ‘legends’ persist.

Of course in the Middle East from 586 BC they were persecuted where they were killed, forced to convert to Christianity (or pretend to to stay alive) before Islam took over, treated as 2nd class citizens, subject to high taxes and strict rules, regular pogroms and were also forced to leave their homes in their hundreds of thousands.

This was all before a return to Israel was even a thing so there was no ‘Zionism’ then which is currently the excuse for the widespread hatred of Jewish people.

Even before this current conflict there seems to have been a deliberate misunderstanding of the situation in the Middle East with a lot of relevant history missed out out.

Such as the Ottoman Empire ruled the area directly before the Mandate of Palestine and they referred to it as Southern Syria. There were no Palestinians only Arabs. Why didn’t they ‘freedom fight’ the Ottomans for their own State as surely they were occupied under the Ottomans too if they believe the land is all theirs?

I have never seen references to Palestinians being ‘occupied’ by the British either. Weird as they believe the land is theirs and always was theirs - from the River to the Sea.

Why do a lot of people ignore the constant terrorist attacks as the reason why not only Israel, but Egypt too, had to blockade Gaza after a terrorist group with a known mandate to annihilate Israel and kill Jews was elected to govern it by it’s citizens?

Why are people not understanding that this war is not a ‘normal’ war with normal rules of engagement between two uniformed military forces where civilians are afforded protection by their government, military hardware, munitions and bases are placed outside of civilian areas and civilians including children are not involved in military action by firing rockets, RPGs, shootings, stabbings, throwing IEDs, holding hostages in their homes and taking part in barbaric murders, rapes, burning people including children alive and taking hostages?

It is absolutely horrific that civilians have been killed in such a high number or at all but a lot of the deaths can be explained as above and are all due to the war Hamas started.

Why are Hamas not being publicly pressured by Palestinian protestors to give themselves up?

The only (and tiny) Jewish State in the world is now even being persecuted for defending itself against massive neighbouring states who want to wipe it out.

Has there ever been such a forensic examination of any other war while in progress as in this one?

The propaganda and false information circulating before and during this conflict has made it all too clear to see how the Holocaust happened and it’s terrifying to see. I used to watch films on the subject and wonder how could so many people have stood by and let it happen. Now we can all see how.

How can a tiny race of 1% of the population who have achieved more than any other race alive today, be so hated.

Is it jealousy of their success or the hundreds of years of lies that have been brainwashed down generations?

AIBU?

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/why-were-jews-persecuted

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

:)

You aren't very good at this are you?

Another poster said that they had seen/heard this discussed, which is what I said, and what they said, rather than making the decision for anyone else.

Also because many people are very adept at hiding their antisemitism because they've learned how to use the word Zionist as code for Jew. That's why Islamophobia might appear more obvious. The 'anti-Zionism isn't antisemitism' crew. When very, very often it is.

puzzledandpissedoff
**
And far from "blaming" the Palestinians themselves I really wish they'd chosen some other route and, as said, confronted the horror of Hamas while they still had the opportunity to make a difference - but they didn't and that was their choice”

So you’re outraged that people consider all Jewish people and the extremist Government of Israel one and the same but somehow all Palestinian people are Hamas supporters?

Come on, you really can’t have it both ways.

Ah I see, so if I say that I once saw a Palestinian saying Jordan is Palestine then according to you:

'they do get to raise that others have questioned this?'

Yeah you're brilliant at this aren't you.

So you’re outraged that people consider all Jewish people and the extremist Government of Israel one and the same but somehow all Palestinian people are Hamas supporters?

That doesn't really make sense does it?
It's precisely because we know that Palestinians are not all Hamas supporters that I hoped enough would speak out against them before it was too late

One if factually untrue and is demonstrably so.

The other was posted by someone here and cannot be proved untrue.

There's a difference.

See, better at this than you :)

How is that not blaming Palestineans? Are enough Israelis speaking out against the Israeli government's war crimes?

So I guess they're both true?

With the caveat being your tiktok knowledge is the sole arbiter of what you believe is factually untrue. So I guess I have my answer now.

You still don’t get to speak on behalf of Jewish people though! I don’t care if you’re Irish or not, it’s irrelevant. Neither you nor I get to speak on half of other marginalised groups especially when it’s dismissing lived experience.

You say “we” don’t have a problem, well quite frankly, I don’t care about your anecdata. The statistics show a rise in antisemitism. Evidence is what matters. People fall over themselves with facts and figures on here, until it goes against their point.

Second point is irrelevant. The people posting on here are almost certainly not the government. We are mainly British Jews talking about our genuine experiences of antisemitism. Yet, I’ve seen people being petty over the definition and trying to argue “oh me and my friends don’t hate Jews” as if that’s got anything to do with anything.

No.

Keep trying, you aren't doing a good job.

Coming from someone who's idea of demonstrating facts means putting some text on a 20 second video of themselves dancing.

https://danielrosehill.medium.com/a-letter-to-my-irish-friends-about-antisemitism-b4a63df4e2fb

Here's someone saying antisemitism is universally tolerated in Ireland.

But someone has said it? Unlike the other poster, I even provided evidence that someone has said it yet you believe the hearsay of another poster but not me? 🥹🥹🥹

It's almost like you're moving the goal posts to support your narrative of choice.

Anyway, if you could stop minimising anti-Semitism and blaming Israel for the increase in anti-Semitism on this thread (and ideally elsewhere too) that would be fabulous. Thanks!

:)

Really. Keep going, it's rather gratifying for you to prove my point for me.

I heard someone say that it's rather gratifying to see you being mocked so badly.

Check your sources of who said it.

Then go and look at the historical evidence of what they've said, then it's demonstrably untrue and therefore dismissable. If you'd raised a point that wasn't factually proved to be incorrect then it wouldn't be.

You can of course apply Hitchen's Razor to their claims but they appeared to be not making them in a malicious way.

No minimisation has happened on my part.

It’s a very painful and sensitive topic for some of us, not an excuse to play little games online.

Ask your ally who has turned it into name calling when I'm quite clearly here answering the question. I have not resorted to name calling either.

Ah yes, trying to claim that 'historical evidence' is perfectly non-contentious and can be demonstrably true/untrue when trying to argue about who lived where and moved where thousands of years ago.

Spoken like a true tiktokker.

Oh, I thought hearsay was enough for you though? And I've definitely heard it said that he said Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine, which should be enough for you based on your previous comments.

You cast that first stone. Can't even deal with history stretching back a few hours, let alone a few thousand years.

My ally? I don’t know anyone on here! I disagreed with your posts. Why do you assume you know better?