To think Jewish people are the scapegoats of humanity?

[FactsNotFictionOnly]

I have not posted on the CITME board as although the current conflict is relevant, that is not the main point of this thread.

I do not mean to cause any offence to Jewish people. In fact the opposite.

IF THIS POST IS DELETED BECAUSE IT OFFENDS NON JEWISH PEOPLE, THEN PLEASE RESPOND WITH WHY YOU FIND IT OFFENSIVE BEFORE REPORTING.

I am an atheist and think all religion should be consigned to history books so have no affiliation with any faith but I found the reaction to Oct 7th shocking with almost immediate protests against Israel (the victim) in favour of the ‘freedom fighters’ (the agressors). The denials that atrocities happened, the antisemitism, horrifying comments on SM which are still allowed to stand to this day.

Never before in my life (and I’m getting on a bit) have I seen that reaction of hatred to any country that has been the victim of any kind of terrorist attack or act of war anywhere in the world. Never before have I been aware of the kind of atrocities committed in Israel on such a large scale by a neighbouring country, filmed by the perpetrators, either.

I had heard comments made about ‘the Jews’ at various stages in my life, how they run the world, the banks, the media etc but never really thought much about it or believed it.

I noticed an absolutely blatant lie that popped up on SM yesterday with thousands of comments agreeing with the poster so I responded (never normally do) saying so with evidence and the abuse I got was unbelievable.

That made me do a bit more research on the persecution of Jewish people through history and I was pretty shocked that they were blamed for the death of Jesus, murdering Christian children as sacrifices to be baked into flatbreads, the Black Death, World War 1, 9/11, Covid. All totally false and a lot of the time because it was a way of debtors not paying money they owed to the Jewish people who were the world’s money lenders as it was prohibited in Christianity and Islam and Jewish people were prohibited from other work.

Each time they were blamed for something whole communities were burned to death or had to flee. They were banished from England in the 12th century as well as lots of other European countries. Now I understand why there is so much hatred from the UK and Europeans as these ‘legends’ persist.

Of course in the Middle East from 586 BC they were persecuted where they were killed, forced to convert to Christianity (or pretend to to stay alive) before Islam took over, treated as 2nd class citizens, subject to high taxes and strict rules, regular pogroms and were also forced to leave their homes in their hundreds of thousands.

This was all before a return to Israel was even a thing so there was no ‘Zionism’ then which is currently the excuse for the widespread hatred of Jewish people.

Even before this current conflict there seems to have been a deliberate misunderstanding of the situation in the Middle East with a lot of relevant history missed out out.

Such as the Ottoman Empire ruled the area directly before the Mandate of Palestine and they referred to it as Southern Syria. There were no Palestinians only Arabs. Why didn’t they ‘freedom fight’ the Ottomans for their own State as surely they were occupied under the Ottomans too if they believe the land is all theirs?

I have never seen references to Palestinians being ‘occupied’ by the British either. Weird as they believe the land is theirs and always was theirs - from the River to the Sea.

Why do a lot of people ignore the constant terrorist attacks as the reason why not only Israel, but Egypt too, had to blockade Gaza after a terrorist group with a known mandate to annihilate Israel and kill Jews was elected to govern it by it’s citizens?

Why are people not understanding that this war is not a ‘normal’ war with normal rules of engagement between two uniformed military forces where civilians are afforded protection by their government, military hardware, munitions and bases are placed outside of civilian areas and civilians including children are not involved in military action by firing rockets, RPGs, shootings, stabbings, throwing IEDs, holding hostages in their homes and taking part in barbaric murders, rapes, burning people including children alive and taking hostages?

It is absolutely horrific that civilians have been killed in such a high number or at all but a lot of the deaths can be explained as above and are all due to the war Hamas started.

Why are Hamas not being publicly pressured by Palestinian protestors to give themselves up?

The only (and tiny) Jewish State in the world is now even being persecuted for defending itself against massive neighbouring states who want to wipe it out.

Has there ever been such a forensic examination of any other war while in progress as in this one?

The propaganda and false information circulating before and during this conflict has made it all too clear to see how the Holocaust happened and it’s terrifying to see. I used to watch films on the subject and wonder how could so many people have stood by and let it happen. Now we can all see how.

How can a tiny race of 1% of the population who have achieved more than any other race alive today, be so hated.

Is it jealousy of their success or the hundreds of years of lies that have been brainwashed down generations?

AIBU?

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/why-were-jews-persecuted

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

Ah can't answer the question so deflection on an irrelevant point. Who says all technology is Israeli - heard of China?

So surely it is important that people say that no we do not in general have a problem with Jewish people, we have no reason to have a problem with you....or do you actually think it's better to let that comment stand and let Jewish people think that their fears are justified and that absolutely everyone is hiding a deep hatred for them?

So I haven’t experienced any problem with Jewish people when I was called a ‘ Fucking Jew’ a few months ago?

And neither did the Jewish Chaplain at our university who has been moved to a safe house .

And neither did the men who have stopped wearing their yarmulkes on the way to synagogue as they were receiving so much abuse from people yelling at them from their cars, sticking two fingers up at them.

Or the 12 year old who was raped because she just happens to be Jewish in France?

Or the colleague who asked if ‘my’ people have a soul?

Or my 6 year old DGS who is only one of 2 Jewish kids in his primary school had a classmate shouting at him “Jewish”, with a mocking sneer on his face?

Or my late DF who was advised to put CofE on his call up papers before the war, because his life would be made hell when they found out he was Jewish ?

I could carry on but kkloo is sure my fears aren’t justified and my experiences are just Jews having a persecution complex . I am appalled. You generally don’t have a problem with Jews other than telling them they are lying liars who lie about the antisemitism they live with.

Ah but come on. Every cloud, right? Your people might have been exterminated en masse but at least everyone felt really guilty afterwards and wanted to be your friend! Same as how they did with disabled people, gay people, Gypsies, socialists. All the people who were victims of the Nazis definitely came out on top.

Pretty much sums it up

The Israeli govt is comprised of some utterly odious, racist, disgusting fascists like Netanyahu, Gallant, Ben Gvir, Smotrich etc. yet if you criticise them, you're accused of being "antisemitic".

The last election was in 2006

Yes, but the last poll wasn't
This isn't the very latest one, but I chose it because it was conducted by a Palestinian organisation and reported by a thoroughly reputable source: www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-rise-support-armed-struggle-by-palestinians-2024-06-13/

And far from "blaming" the Palestinians themselves I really wish they'd chosen some other route and, as said, confronted the horror of Hamas while they still had the opportunity to make a difference - but they didn't and that was their choice

It seems that everyone gets labelled for the actions of a few.

And I'm not calling Jewish people liars, I am questioning if the existential threat is as real as people think it is, and Jewish people have also questioned that and they were the ones who said about the persecution complex.

Don't worry about China, they won't be cracking the security of your router, phone, website access anytime soon, thanks to Israel

Thanks for your support!

It is really funny that you do this in defence of someone who has made the claims that they have, which clearly don't come from any kind of study of the issues.

They didn't agree with the tiktok videos you've watched then.

The threat is real. It is constant. It is not imaginary. People really, really hate Jewish people and always have done. They've also always acted on that hated.

Hope that clarifies matters for you.

One thing you need to remember is that not all Jewish people are visibly Jewish (hate that term btw). No one knows I'm Jewish when I'm just walking down the road...I also have a typically British surname so no one knows unless i tell them. I imagine anti Semitic incidents would be much much higher if this were not the case for many of us.

Fwiw I am very careful about who I tell. My dc know not to tell anyone at the moment

Mosab Hassan Yousef talks about how Hamas very violently forces Palestinians to 'comply'

I know, @HowoftenshouldIdothis, and he's right - or at least he is now that Hamas have become so thoroughly entrenched

As already said though, it wasn't always this way and it's just dreadful that it's been allowed to develop

and now this is such a great dismissal, keep it up.

thankyou, I think you've been suitably dismissed though.

It's so sad that this is the reality so many of us find ourselves in. People really don't get it, do they? I suppose it's hard to imagine what it's been like without ever having been through similar.

You really haven't though.

Keep trying.

I am questioning if the existential threat is as real as people think it is

you are in no position to be the judge of that. Just as a Jewish person would never presume to ask any other minority group, if the racism they receive is as real as they think it is. Wow!

Didn't the poster say that they had seen people who were Jewish discussing this?

They don't get to make the judgement, they do get to raise that others have questioned this?

Per an earlier response I posted on here, there has to be an element of objectivity and agreement as to where lines and boundaries are drawn - so there is some discussion to be had here. This is the only way it can work in practice. This is true of all minority rights groups ranging from those relating to race to those for example relating to gender, such as trans.

Many people uncritically repeat information put out by Hamas... As if they have no idea what Hamas is like.

Some people do the same with Israel despite the fact that even in this conflict there have been things that have been proven to be propaganda that were reported as news stories.

**
Do you think Israel are deliberately targeting children?”

It’s not going out of its way to avoid them, is it?

Is it a 'fact' that they discussed this, or just another of your tiktok 'facts'?