To think Jewish people are the scapegoats of humanity?

[FactsNotFictionOnly]

I have not posted on the CITME board as although the current conflict is relevant, that is not the main point of this thread.

I do not mean to cause any offence to Jewish people. In fact the opposite.

IF THIS POST IS DELETED BECAUSE IT OFFENDS NON JEWISH PEOPLE, THEN PLEASE RESPOND WITH WHY YOU FIND IT OFFENSIVE BEFORE REPORTING.

I am an atheist and think all religion should be consigned to history books so have no affiliation with any faith but I found the reaction to Oct 7th shocking with almost immediate protests against Israel (the victim) in favour of the ‘freedom fighters’ (the agressors). The denials that atrocities happened, the antisemitism, horrifying comments on SM which are still allowed to stand to this day.

Never before in my life (and I’m getting on a bit) have I seen that reaction of hatred to any country that has been the victim of any kind of terrorist attack or act of war anywhere in the world. Never before have I been aware of the kind of atrocities committed in Israel on such a large scale by a neighbouring country, filmed by the perpetrators, either.

I had heard comments made about ‘the Jews’ at various stages in my life, how they run the world, the banks, the media etc but never really thought much about it or believed it.

I noticed an absolutely blatant lie that popped up on SM yesterday with thousands of comments agreeing with the poster so I responded (never normally do) saying so with evidence and the abuse I got was unbelievable.

That made me do a bit more research on the persecution of Jewish people through history and I was pretty shocked that they were blamed for the death of Jesus, murdering Christian children as sacrifices to be baked into flatbreads, the Black Death, World War 1, 9/11, Covid. All totally false and a lot of the time because it was a way of debtors not paying money they owed to the Jewish people who were the world’s money lenders as it was prohibited in Christianity and Islam and Jewish people were prohibited from other work.

Each time they were blamed for something whole communities were burned to death or had to flee. They were banished from England in the 12th century as well as lots of other European countries. Now I understand why there is so much hatred from the UK and Europeans as these ‘legends’ persist.

Of course in the Middle East from 586 BC they were persecuted where they were killed, forced to convert to Christianity (or pretend to to stay alive) before Islam took over, treated as 2nd class citizens, subject to high taxes and strict rules, regular pogroms and were also forced to leave their homes in their hundreds of thousands.

This was all before a return to Israel was even a thing so there was no ‘Zionism’ then which is currently the excuse for the widespread hatred of Jewish people.

Even before this current conflict there seems to have been a deliberate misunderstanding of the situation in the Middle East with a lot of relevant history missed out out.

Such as the Ottoman Empire ruled the area directly before the Mandate of Palestine and they referred to it as Southern Syria. There were no Palestinians only Arabs. Why didn’t they ‘freedom fight’ the Ottomans for their own State as surely they were occupied under the Ottomans too if they believe the land is all theirs?

I have never seen references to Palestinians being ‘occupied’ by the British either. Weird as they believe the land is theirs and always was theirs - from the River to the Sea.

Why do a lot of people ignore the constant terrorist attacks as the reason why not only Israel, but Egypt too, had to blockade Gaza after a terrorist group with a known mandate to annihilate Israel and kill Jews was elected to govern it by it’s citizens?

Why are people not understanding that this war is not a ‘normal’ war with normal rules of engagement between two uniformed military forces where civilians are afforded protection by their government, military hardware, munitions and bases are placed outside of civilian areas and civilians including children are not involved in military action by firing rockets, RPGs, shootings, stabbings, throwing IEDs, holding hostages in their homes and taking part in barbaric murders, rapes, burning people including children alive and taking hostages?

It is absolutely horrific that civilians have been killed in such a high number or at all but a lot of the deaths can be explained as above and are all due to the war Hamas started.

Why are Hamas not being publicly pressured by Palestinian protestors to give themselves up?

The only (and tiny) Jewish State in the world is now even being persecuted for defending itself against massive neighbouring states who want to wipe it out.

Has there ever been such a forensic examination of any other war while in progress as in this one?

The propaganda and false information circulating before and during this conflict has made it all too clear to see how the Holocaust happened and it’s terrifying to see. I used to watch films on the subject and wonder how could so many people have stood by and let it happen. Now we can all see how.

How can a tiny race of 1% of the population who have achieved more than any other race alive today, be so hated.

Is it jealousy of their success or the hundreds of years of lies that have been brainwashed down generations?

AIBU?

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/why-were-jews-persecuted

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

Indeed.
I also notice that some of those posting had multiple posts removed after being reported for anti-semitism on the last thread about Jewish people.

:)

As said, not.

If we really want to go back to it all though, the mathematics is all Arabic.

and so is a lot of the bull you appear to be posting

He is isn't he (or she) and on mulitple responses to various other posters too. Well said for all of your logic 👏👏👏

It was a general statement in response to something you said about anti-Semitism, not me accusing you of being anti-Semitic. You're merely minimising it.

Fact though.

You said it quoting my post so I asked what I had said that was?

Again, do shut up with your propaganda. Nothing is “verified”. Seriously, it’s very interesting to see what dipshittery and clowning comes up in these threads.
🤡🤡🤡🤡

Do you really think Palestinians would dare to voice disapproval of Hamas without fear of retribution?

I'm afraid they may have to if they ever wish to live in anything approaching peace, though it would have been much easier to do it before Hamas fully developed their stranglehold

Do you think this might have something to do with the extreme situation they are in?

To a certain extent perhaps, but then at least part part of the reason for their extreme situation has been their own enablement of the regime. After all it didn't become like this in a day, and if they preferred not to object as Hamas's aims were becoming clear they need to take some responsibility for what's followed

I nowhere said or implied that.

One always wonders what motivates such 'Independents' as you to get their 'factual' PhD's on Israel/Palestine from

So why have they banned journalists in Gaza?

Better places that certain other posters?

Because everyone agrees how awful Hamas is, while some still think Israel is innocent?

Looks like TikTok is your source of facts.

Nothing. You have just been minimising anti-Semitism and saying it's not as prevalent as Jewish people say it is. Which I guess I can see how it happens if people only accept the "outright" stuff as being anti-Semitic and purposely ignore the more day-to-day anti-Semitic BS we have to deal with because of how normalised it has become.

@Aladdinzane

You keep saying I don't know enough. True actually. I'm still learning although there's lots of information out there.

So maybe I don't know enough, but I'd say Mosab Hassan Yousef, the son of one of the Hamas founders (a Palestinian himself and who has says he loves Palestinians as they're, as he says, his people) does.

He's a former Hamas insider. I'd say he knows and understands the current situation and the history of the region a lot more than you do.

I recommend you listen to his speech to the UN. He's also spoken in the past on the history of the conflict (before 7th October).

Yes, he's a strong defender of Israel and very scathing of Hamas (who he blames for the current conflict, sees as the real enemy of Palestinians rather than Israel, and he articulately explains why including their use of children as human shields), but his overall wish is for peace in the region.

Separately, why are British Jewish people being abused in the UK? What do they have to do with the current ME conflict? Why is there whataboutery and people saying "but Israel" almost every time there's a mention of antisemitic incidents and abuse in the UK? Why are Jewish people who experience antisemitism told they're exaggerating or imagining it?

I admitted yesterday I was naive about antisemitism until 7th October. As someone who isn't Jewish I suppose I wasn't affected and didn't really notice it. My concern about VAWG and shock about 7th October was what made me start to take notice of antisemitism in general. I can't unsee it now.

Jews are sometimes referred to as 'the canary in the coalmine'. This is because how Jews are being treated in a place/time indicates how views of 'others' are developing in that situation.

As Jonathan Freedland put it in The Guardian in March 2018:

"Less tangibly, it’s the cast of mind, the way of thinking, that antisemitism represents that we should fear. Conspiracy theory, fake news, demonisation of an unpopular group: what happens to our politics if all these become the norm? This is why Jews have often functioned as a canary in the coalmine: when a society turns on its Jews, it is usually a sign of wider ill health.

Put another way, hasn’t history shown us that racism never stays confined to mere “pockets”? Once the virus is inside, it does not rest until it has infected the entire body."

I'm afraid they may have to if they ever wish to live in anything approaching peace, though it would have been much easier to do it before Hamas fully developed their stranglehold.

I think peace has to be a very two sided approach and the current method of ingnoring the actions of the Israeli government over decades and blaming the Palestinians and even their civilians ( as you do here) needs to change. The current Israeli action in Gaza has done nothing more than create thousands more young people who will want to fight.

"To a certain extent perhaps, but then at least part part of the reason for their extreme situation has been their own enablement of the regime. After all it didn't become like this in a day, and if they preferred not to object as Hamas's aims were becoming clear they need to take some responsibility for what's followed"

The last election was in 2006. This is now just blaming the civilian population for Hamas's actions.

Imagine if I'd said that the dead from the music festival were down to their own enablement of the regime?

The mask has well and truly slipped now.

I say you don't know enough because you keep posting stuff that just isn't historically accurate.

Except you said October 7th was like someone fighting back against a bully so yeah you kind of did.

Nah you're saying it because you watched a few tiktok videos, thought this would be a cool thing to jump on, but can't defend your viewpoint when it comes to it

I also notice that some of those posting had multiple posts removed after being reported for anti-semitism on the last thread about Jewish people

Yes I'd noticed, @Bunnyasmyname, but it was unfortunately predictable since such threads appear to be catnip for this kind of thing

We've just been reminded that threads about Hamas's wickedness attract very few posts and this seems such a shame given the horrors we're told the folk of Palestine are suffering under them. Predictable again though, since the urge to slam Israel and its people often appears greater than the concern for those they profess to support

Tbf to Palestinians, they're in an awful situation. Mosab Hassan Yousef talks about how Hamas very violently forces Palestinians to 'comply'. He experienced serious violence as a young child as part of his 'training' and he talks about Hamas torturing and murdering Palestinians suspected of not going along with the ideology. It's very difficult I imagine.

He wants the rest of the world to recognise this and help Palestinians by opposing Hamas and by supporting Israel.

Jews are sometimes referred to as 'the canary in the coalmine'. This is because how Jews are being treated in a place/time indicates how views of 'others' are developing in that situation.

Mosab mentions this too. He's very articulate and speaks very powerfully.

@MoMo999

I thought you were boycotting Israel?

Still using your smartphone technology 24/7?

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