To think Jewish people are the scapegoats of humanity?

[FactsNotFictionOnly]

I have not posted on the CITME board as although the current conflict is relevant, that is not the main point of this thread.

I do not mean to cause any offence to Jewish people. In fact the opposite.

IF THIS POST IS DELETED BECAUSE IT OFFENDS NON JEWISH PEOPLE, THEN PLEASE RESPOND WITH WHY YOU FIND IT OFFENSIVE BEFORE REPORTING.

I am an atheist and think all religion should be consigned to history books so have no affiliation with any faith but I found the reaction to Oct 7th shocking with almost immediate protests against Israel (the victim) in favour of the ‘freedom fighters’ (the agressors). The denials that atrocities happened, the antisemitism, horrifying comments on SM which are still allowed to stand to this day.

Never before in my life (and I’m getting on a bit) have I seen that reaction of hatred to any country that has been the victim of any kind of terrorist attack or act of war anywhere in the world. Never before have I been aware of the kind of atrocities committed in Israel on such a large scale by a neighbouring country, filmed by the perpetrators, either.

I had heard comments made about ‘the Jews’ at various stages in my life, how they run the world, the banks, the media etc but never really thought much about it or believed it.

I noticed an absolutely blatant lie that popped up on SM yesterday with thousands of comments agreeing with the poster so I responded (never normally do) saying so with evidence and the abuse I got was unbelievable.

That made me do a bit more research on the persecution of Jewish people through history and I was pretty shocked that they were blamed for the death of Jesus, murdering Christian children as sacrifices to be baked into flatbreads, the Black Death, World War 1, 9/11, Covid. All totally false and a lot of the time because it was a way of debtors not paying money they owed to the Jewish people who were the world’s money lenders as it was prohibited in Christianity and Islam and Jewish people were prohibited from other work.

Each time they were blamed for something whole communities were burned to death or had to flee. They were banished from England in the 12th century as well as lots of other European countries. Now I understand why there is so much hatred from the UK and Europeans as these ‘legends’ persist.

Of course in the Middle East from 586 BC they were persecuted where they were killed, forced to convert to Christianity (or pretend to to stay alive) before Islam took over, treated as 2nd class citizens, subject to high taxes and strict rules, regular pogroms and were also forced to leave their homes in their hundreds of thousands.

This was all before a return to Israel was even a thing so there was no ‘Zionism’ then which is currently the excuse for the widespread hatred of Jewish people.

Even before this current conflict there seems to have been a deliberate misunderstanding of the situation in the Middle East with a lot of relevant history missed out out.

Such as the Ottoman Empire ruled the area directly before the Mandate of Palestine and they referred to it as Southern Syria. There were no Palestinians only Arabs. Why didn’t they ‘freedom fight’ the Ottomans for their own State as surely they were occupied under the Ottomans too if they believe the land is all theirs?

I have never seen references to Palestinians being ‘occupied’ by the British either. Weird as they believe the land is theirs and always was theirs - from the River to the Sea.

Why do a lot of people ignore the constant terrorist attacks as the reason why not only Israel, but Egypt too, had to blockade Gaza after a terrorist group with a known mandate to annihilate Israel and kill Jews was elected to govern it by it’s citizens?

Why are people not understanding that this war is not a ‘normal’ war with normal rules of engagement between two uniformed military forces where civilians are afforded protection by their government, military hardware, munitions and bases are placed outside of civilian areas and civilians including children are not involved in military action by firing rockets, RPGs, shootings, stabbings, throwing IEDs, holding hostages in their homes and taking part in barbaric murders, rapes, burning people including children alive and taking hostages?

It is absolutely horrific that civilians have been killed in such a high number or at all but a lot of the deaths can be explained as above and are all due to the war Hamas started.

Why are Hamas not being publicly pressured by Palestinian protestors to give themselves up?

The only (and tiny) Jewish State in the world is now even being persecuted for defending itself against massive neighbouring states who want to wipe it out.

Has there ever been such a forensic examination of any other war while in progress as in this one?

The propaganda and false information circulating before and during this conflict has made it all too clear to see how the Holocaust happened and it’s terrifying to see. I used to watch films on the subject and wonder how could so many people have stood by and let it happen. Now we can all see how.

How can a tiny race of 1% of the population who have achieved more than any other race alive today, be so hated.

Is it jealousy of their success or the hundreds of years of lies that have been brainwashed down generations?

AIBU?

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/why-were-jews-persecuted

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

Even if they had the manpower they would not address a matter that is NOT AN OFFENCE. I am bored of your either stupidity or wilful misunderstanding. So here is a final goodbye. All you have done is prove what everyone else has said about false narratives attempting to support Israel.

There is a thread about anti-Semitism now because anti-Semitism is a massive issue, despite what some on here are claiming. There was also a thread about Islamophobia earlier this week because that's also currently a massive issue. What are you trying to get at?

They are not going to declare chanting something an offence if they're unable to deal with it in this day and age.

It's not that hard to comprehend, you just have to stop stamping your foot for a moment.

Wow.

And there we have it laid bare, expulsion by force is fine as long is its the side that you support is doing it.

It happened before you I or most people on here were born. Nothing to do with sides.

I agree with your posts Aladdinzane. I wouldn't waste further time responding to points that are either wilfully blind or shamefully stupid. Everyone sane will draw right thinking conclusions.

Hmm, yet in the OP there is a clearly pro Israeli narrative of history and presentation of Israel as the wronged party and innocent victim in this situation, it's hardly an innocent post.

There is an issue with antisemitism as well as Islamophobia, although I've noted a great fewer levels of outright antisemitism (although they are sadly here) on this thread than there was Islamophobia on the other.

Of course you can debate the reasons why Anti-Semitism is on the rise ( the fact that both far left and right groups repeat old Anti-Semitic tropes in new guises can be one). But the other COULD be the use of this as a defence by the Israeli government to avoid any critique of it's actions in Gaza. So far claims have been made against the ICC, UN and many aid charities.

Same conclusion as Putin apparently - that land once belonged to Russia 40 years ago, etc. etc.

I second that. How mad to have logic that boils down to things such as if we had more police we would invent new crimes and then claim that other people are wrong/ childish/ agree with dictators etc. ..... I am off out for a jog - have a nice afternoon!

Occam's razor applies here. The levels of antisemitism in various parts of the World is documented and the immigration statistics in the UK are also documented. You don't need conspiracy theories to explain it.

No conspiracy theory, just explaining why other issues have been discussed, its because of what is in the OP.

There is no legitimacy in any claim going back thousands of years. If that's the case then all the land in NZ, Canada, the US, South American and Australia belongs to those who can prove they are indigenous.

That's true though? And in recent years the historic awful treatment of indigenous people in those countries has gained more attention (rightly so).

Difference is they aren't committing terrorist attacks against the more recent New Zealanders, Canadians, Americans, or Australians, nor has there been widespread desire expressed amongst indigenous people in those countries to wipe the newer inhabitants out.

Whereas the indigenous people of Israel have been experiencing terrorist attacks and attempts to wipe them out. For centuries.

However, the Palestinians are genetically the descendants of the people who lived in the region back then. Describing them as "Arabs" has never been accurate, mostly they are the descendants of historic converts to Islam (IE not descended from people from the Arab Peninsular.

Genetically Jewish people are the indigenous of Israel. (Together with some other groups. I think some Samaritans still exist? Might be confusing them with another group).

Many of the indigenous Jewish people were forced to leave (under threat of being killed) but some never left. But yes you're right. Many of the historic converts to Islam in that region are descendants... of the original Jewish inhabitants.

It's also historically accurate that some in the region today are Arabs who moved there, when Israel was under various occupations over the centuries. Just like some Romans moved to countries they occupied.

I do wish more people could separate disdain for Netanyahu and his deeds from antisemitism. Jewish people are no more to blame for Gaza than we are to blame for the shitshow our various governments have caused over the years.

@79Helene
That's London. I'm in a different country

"Difference is they aren't committing terrorist attacks against the more recent New Zealanders, Canadians, Americans, or Australians, nor has there been widespread desire expressed amongst indigenous people in those countries to wipe the newer inhabitants out."

Are the indigenous citizens in these countries still denied access to properties, have properties seized by other citizens? Do they get forced off land that was once theirs and then herded into a certain area where the occupying force controls all access too and from? Are thousands of their members held without trial in military prisons?

I will note hear that whilst the use of sex attacks by Hamas has been condemned here there has been no equal condemnation of Israel sexual abuse of prisoners.

"Genetically Jewish people are the indigenous of Israel."

So are the Palestinians, go look at any of the genetic data. The Palestinians have also been in continual occupation.

"!It's also historically accurate that some in the region today are Arabs who moved there, when Israel was under various occupations over the centuries."

Some, not all, the people in the area at the time converted.

Seriously, you have swallowed a lot of rubbish.

@somewhereovertherain

Please stop denying the massive, well documented increase in antisemitism.

Here's one recent UK example with video evidence:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/stamford-hill-attempted-kidnap-synagogue-baby-pushchair-b2564721.html

Anyone trying to blame Jewish people for the actions of the Israeli government would rightly be called out as being anti-Semitic. However the government is also using anti-Semitism as a way to dismiss any criticism from the international community.

Did the Israeli Government plant protestors to carry around swastikas on London marches too?

Well at least two were arrested.

Were they representative of the march as a whole? No.

But nice attempt to deflect.

I'm speaking as an Irish person though.

Are we just supposed to let it stand when we get accused of 'othering' Jewish and not say that we don't?

I have seen some Jewish people on Jewish news websites etc. discuss how Jewish people have a persecution complex due to the generation trauma and how there is a feeling that everyone is out to get them and they question how much of it is real and how much of it is scaremongering.

So surely it is important that people say that no we do not in general have a problem with Jewish people, we have no reason to have a problem with you....or do you actually think it's better to let that comment stand and let Jewish people think that their fears are justified and that absolutely everyone is hiding a deep hatred for them?

we do not in general have a problem with Jewish people

What on earth does 'in general' mean?

Gosh, this thread makes me so sad and fearful for anyone Jewish out there.

If anyone is any doubt that anti-semitism is not only alive and well but 'justified' and acceptable, I'd suggest they read this thread.