To think Jewish people are the scapegoats of humanity?

[FactsNotFictionOnly]

I have not posted on the CITME board as although the current conflict is relevant, that is not the main point of this thread.

I do not mean to cause any offence to Jewish people. In fact the opposite.

IF THIS POST IS DELETED BECAUSE IT OFFENDS NON JEWISH PEOPLE, THEN PLEASE RESPOND WITH WHY YOU FIND IT OFFENSIVE BEFORE REPORTING.

I am an atheist and think all religion should be consigned to history books so have no affiliation with any faith but I found the reaction to Oct 7th shocking with almost immediate protests against Israel (the victim) in favour of the ‘freedom fighters’ (the agressors). The denials that atrocities happened, the antisemitism, horrifying comments on SM which are still allowed to stand to this day.

Never before in my life (and I’m getting on a bit) have I seen that reaction of hatred to any country that has been the victim of any kind of terrorist attack or act of war anywhere in the world. Never before have I been aware of the kind of atrocities committed in Israel on such a large scale by a neighbouring country, filmed by the perpetrators, either.

I had heard comments made about ‘the Jews’ at various stages in my life, how they run the world, the banks, the media etc but never really thought much about it or believed it.

I noticed an absolutely blatant lie that popped up on SM yesterday with thousands of comments agreeing with the poster so I responded (never normally do) saying so with evidence and the abuse I got was unbelievable.

That made me do a bit more research on the persecution of Jewish people through history and I was pretty shocked that they were blamed for the death of Jesus, murdering Christian children as sacrifices to be baked into flatbreads, the Black Death, World War 1, 9/11, Covid. All totally false and a lot of the time because it was a way of debtors not paying money they owed to the Jewish people who were the world’s money lenders as it was prohibited in Christianity and Islam and Jewish people were prohibited from other work.

Each time they were blamed for something whole communities were burned to death or had to flee. They were banished from England in the 12th century as well as lots of other European countries. Now I understand why there is so much hatred from the UK and Europeans as these ‘legends’ persist.

Of course in the Middle East from 586 BC they were persecuted where they were killed, forced to convert to Christianity (or pretend to to stay alive) before Islam took over, treated as 2nd class citizens, subject to high taxes and strict rules, regular pogroms and were also forced to leave their homes in their hundreds of thousands.

This was all before a return to Israel was even a thing so there was no ‘Zionism’ then which is currently the excuse for the widespread hatred of Jewish people.

Even before this current conflict there seems to have been a deliberate misunderstanding of the situation in the Middle East with a lot of relevant history missed out out.

Such as the Ottoman Empire ruled the area directly before the Mandate of Palestine and they referred to it as Southern Syria. There were no Palestinians only Arabs. Why didn’t they ‘freedom fight’ the Ottomans for their own State as surely they were occupied under the Ottomans too if they believe the land is all theirs?

I have never seen references to Palestinians being ‘occupied’ by the British either. Weird as they believe the land is theirs and always was theirs - from the River to the Sea.

Why do a lot of people ignore the constant terrorist attacks as the reason why not only Israel, but Egypt too, had to blockade Gaza after a terrorist group with a known mandate to annihilate Israel and kill Jews was elected to govern it by it’s citizens?

Why are people not understanding that this war is not a ‘normal’ war with normal rules of engagement between two uniformed military forces where civilians are afforded protection by their government, military hardware, munitions and bases are placed outside of civilian areas and civilians including children are not involved in military action by firing rockets, RPGs, shootings, stabbings, throwing IEDs, holding hostages in their homes and taking part in barbaric murders, rapes, burning people including children alive and taking hostages?

It is absolutely horrific that civilians have been killed in such a high number or at all but a lot of the deaths can be explained as above and are all due to the war Hamas started.

Why are Hamas not being publicly pressured by Palestinian protestors to give themselves up?

The only (and tiny) Jewish State in the world is now even being persecuted for defending itself against massive neighbouring states who want to wipe it out.

Has there ever been such a forensic examination of any other war while in progress as in this one?

The propaganda and false information circulating before and during this conflict has made it all too clear to see how the Holocaust happened and it’s terrifying to see. I used to watch films on the subject and wonder how could so many people have stood by and let it happen. Now we can all see how.

How can a tiny race of 1% of the population who have achieved more than any other race alive today, be so hated.

Is it jealousy of their success or the hundreds of years of lies that have been brainwashed down generations?

AIBU?

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/why-were-jews-persecuted

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

It's also incorrect ( but politically expedient for the OP) to claim that this conflict began on October 7th.

But then, its too easy to identify it.

As several of your posts lack any pleasantries..... I'd say my initial assessment of your replies to other posters are correct. But as others have rightly chosen not to waste their time engaging in prolonged discussion but merely posting to disprove your claims and then bidding you goodbye, so will I.

Ah ok I see so the reason you're arguing this is because you want accuracy rather than a quick summary for everyone.

Fine, then

Johnson–Lindenstrauss lemma, a mathematical result concerning low-distortion embeddings of points from high-dimensional into low-dimensional Euclidean space contributed by Joram Lindenstrauss.
Development of the measurement of rigidity by Elon Lindenstrauss in ergodic theory, and their applications to number theory.[7]
A proof of Szemerédi's theorem using ergodic theory, by mathematician Hillel Furstenberg.
Expansion of axiomatic set theory and the ZF set theory by Abraham Fraenkel.
Development of the area of automorphic forms and L-functions by Ilya Piatetski-Shapiro.[8][9]
Development of Sauer–Shelah lemma and Shelah cardinal.
Development of the first proof of the alternating sign matrix conjecture.
Development of Zig-zag product of graphs, a method of combining smaller graphs to produce larger ones used in the construction of expander graphs by Avi Wigderson.
Development of Bernstein–Sato polynomial and proof of the Kazhdan–Lusztig conjectures by Joseph Bernstein
Generalization of the marriage theorem by obtaining the right transfinite conditions for infinite bipartite graphs. He subsequently proved the appropriate versions of the Kőnig theorem and the Menger theorem for infinite graphs by Ron Aharoni.
Development of the Amitsur–Levitzki theorem by Shimshon Amitsur.
False discovery rate, a statistical method for regulating Type I errors.[10]
Discovery of quasicrystals by Dan Shechtman of the Technion.[11] The discovery led him to receive the 2011 Nobel Prize in Chemistry.[12]
Discovery of the role of protein Ubiquitin by Avram Hershko and Aaron Ciechanover of the Technion Institute (together with the American biologist Irwin Rose). The discovery led them to receive the 2004 Nobel Prize in Chemistry.[13][14]
Increased understanding of how proteins are made - Ada Yonath of Israel alongside Venkatraman Ramakrishnan of India and Thomas A. Steitz of the US shared the 2009 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for increased understanding of the structure and function of ribosomes.[15]
Development of multiscale models for complex chemical systems by Arieh Warshel and Michael Levitt of the Weizmann Institute of Science (presently at University of Southern California and Stanford University, respectively), together with the Austrian-born American chemist Martin Karplus. The discovery led them to receive the 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry.[16]
The pressure bandage - known widely as the Israeli Bandage is a specially designed, first-aid device that is used to stop bleeding from hemorrhagic wounds caused by traumatic injuries in pre-hospital emergency situations.[29] First used for saving lives during a NATO peacekeeping operation in Bosnia and Herzegovina,[30] by inventor, Israeli military medic, Bernard Bar-Natan.[31] The bandage was successfully used during operations Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom and is widely used today, across the world.[32][33][34] The bandage was nicknamed "Israeli bandage" by American soldiers, and has been "the bandage of choice for the US Army and special forces". Before the Israeli emergency bandage was invented in 1998, wounded soldiers were told to find a rock and wrap it on top of hemorrhaging wounds in order to hold direct pressure.[35] Bar-Natan sold his company to PerSys Medical Inc in Houston, Texas, the company that first introduced the bandage to the US military.
A Sudanese service member, right, applies a bandage to U.S. Navy Petty Officer 3rd Class Douglas Barton's arm during exercise Cutlass Express 2013 at the Port of Djibouti in Djibouti Nov. 13, 2013
An Israeli Bandage being used by Sudanese and US Naval service members during a training exercise.
Eshkol-Wachman Movement Notation – a notation system for recording movement on paper that has been used in many fields, including dance, physical therapy, animal behavior and early diagnosis of autism.[36]
Development of the Copaxone immunomodulator drug for treating multiple sclerosis. It was developed in the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel by Michael Sela, Ruth Arnon and Deborah Teitelbaum.[37][38]
Development of bioengineered recombinant interferon proteins by Michel Revel from the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel.[39]
Development of taliglucerase alfa (Elelyso), a recombinant glucocerebrosidase enzyme produced from transgenic carrot cell cultures.[40] Taliglucerase alfa won approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in May 2012 as an orphan drug for the treatment of Type 1 Gaucher's disease.[41]
Sambucol, an over-the-counter elderberry-based anti-influenza syrup.[42] Discovered by Dr. Madeleine Mumcuoglu at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. Studies in 1995 showed that Sambucol was effective against human, swine and avian influenza strains, although more research is required to clearly understand its effectiveness.[43][44][45]
Development of ENvue, a feeding tube placement system with advanced methods of navigation, integrated sensors and body mapping, for accurate enteral tube placement, by the Israeli company ENvizion Medical, used in Hospitals and Medical centers in the US.[46]
Work of Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem explaining irrational human economic choices.[47] The work led Daniel to receive the 2002 Nobel Prize in Economics.[48]
Developments in Game theory. Israel Aumann of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem received the 2005 Nobel Prize in Economics for his work in this field.[49]
The Rubinstein bargaining model, one of the most influential findings in game theory, refers to a class of bargaining games that feature alternating offers through an infinite time horizon. The proof is from Ariel Rubinstein 1982.[50]
RSA public key encryption, introduced by Adi Shamir with Ron Rivest, and Leonard Adleman[54]
The concept of nondeterministic finite automatons, introduced by Michael O. Rabin[55]
Amir Pnueli introduced temporal logic into computing science
Lempel–Ziv–Welch algorithm, a universal lossless data compression algorithm created by Abraham Lempel and Jacob Ziv of the Technion institute, together with the American Information theorist, Terry Welch.[56]
Differential cryptanalysis, co-invented by Adi Shamir[citation needed]
Shamir's Secret Sharing, invented by Adi Shamir[citation needed]
Smartphone dual lens technology, by Israeli company Corephotonics. In 2018, Corephotonics sued Apple Inc for infringement of its dual camera patents; specifically regarding several iPhone models' use of their patented telephoto lens design, optical zoom method, and a method for intelligently fusing images from the wide-angle and telephoto lenses to improve image quality, infringing on four separate patents.[57][58][59][60][61][62] Corephotonics was bought by Samsung in 2018 for US$155 million.[63]
An iPhone with a dual lens camera; a technology developed by Israeli company Corephotonics.
An iPhone with a dual lens camera; a technology developed by Israeli company Corephotonics.
The Intel 8088 – This microprocessor, designed at Intel's Haifa laboratory, powered the first PC that IBM built,[64] which is credited with kickstarting the PC revolution.[65][66][67][68][69] The 8088 was designed in Israel at Intel's Haifa laboratory. The widespread use of the IBM's PC,[70] using the 8088 processor, established the use of x86 architecture as a de facto standard for decades. The IEEE wrote that "almost all the world’s PCs are built around CPUs that can claim the 8088 as an ancestor."[71][72] Intel has credited the 8088 with launching the company into the Fortune 500.[71]
Quicktionary Electronic dictionary – a pen-sized scanner able to scan words or phrases and immediately translate them into other languages, or keep them in memory in order to transfer them to the PC. Developed by the company Wizcom Technologies Ltd.[73]
Laser Keyboard – a virtual keyboard is projected onto a wall or table top and allows to type handheld computers and cell phones. Developed simultaneously by the Israeli company Lumio and Silicon Valley startup company Canesta.[74][75][76][77] The company subsequently licensed the technology to Celluon of Korea.[78]
TDMoIP (TDM over IP) − in telecommunications, the emulation of time-division multiplexing (TDM) over a packet-switched network (PSN), developed by engineers at RAD Data Communications[79]
Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) - technology for voice based communications using the internet instead of traditional telephone systems. VoIP was originally conceived by Danny Cohen, an Israeli-American scientist, but was first created, implemented, and commercialized by Netanya-based, Israeli company VocalTec and its founder Alon Cohen[80][81][82][83][84]
Many Intel processors are developed and/or manufactured in Israel[85] including:
Ice Lake Server processors, developed in Haifa and produced at Intel's Kiryat Gat plant.[86][87][88]
Celeron
Sunny Cove[89]
Rocket Lake
Alder Lake[90]
Pentium MMX[91]
Centrino / Pentium M[92]
Sandy Bridge
Development and production of processors and chipsets for many companies including Google, Apple, Microsoft, HP, Amazon, IBM, Broadcom, ARM, STMicroelectronics, Samsung, Sony, and Qualcomm, some of whom have had major research and development centers in Israel for decades, often developing key technologies in their Israeli R&D centers.[93][94][95][96][97][98]
Thunderbolt, a widely used interface technology, was developed as a joint venture between Apple Inc and Intel, in Israel[99][100][101]

TL/DR

Your bias means you clearly cannot accept facts. They say it is not a crime on marches, hence they will not be pursuing arrests. That is what the other poster said.

Semantics and changing the goalposts to accommodate your narrative is not the gotcha moment that you think it is.

It is all they have though.

Ok here's a quick one for you from a computer scientist.

The Intel processor stands on the shoulders of temporal logic, a theoretical work of computer science developed in Israel. The theory what they use to build the tools that perform automatic verification on their chips.

No I didn't look that up.

Now go away and stop pretending to be clever.

You’re not unreasonable - you’re aware of world history. As long as Jews have existed, people have been blaming them for the ills of the world and trying to either kill them or eject them from mainstream society.

@Aladdinzane Mosab Hassan Yousef (son of one the Hamas founders) has spoken about the issues, including at his speech to the UN.

It definitely, as he says, goes back before the 7th October Hamas terrorist attacks, but he explains (as someone who was a Hamas insider) how the cause is Hamas and related previous organisations and their ideology.

I'm not an expert but learning more (I was motivated to learn more after 7th October), the issues didn't start in 1948. Israel existed thousands of years ago but was under various occupations until regaining independence in the 20th century.

With the 1948 situation, isn't a large part of the land, that was known as Palestine at the time, now the kingdom of Jordan? (like Israel, a nation/country that was under various occupations or regimes, but has been in existence for centuries). Which makes me wonder. When the chant about river to sea is said, do those chanting it include Jordan as well as Israel in their desire? If so, what does Jordan think about that? Don't suppose it's something they want and assume it's a concern to Jordan as well as Israel? Unless if course it's not about land/nation states and is actually about antisemitism (or racism, as some posters have suggested would be a better term than 'antisemitism'.

Going back to OP's original post because I I've realised the direction of this thread has kind of proved her point. Any discussion about the history of antisemitism seems to inevitably include people doing Whataboutery about Israel. Why? OP noted the issue of racism against Jewish people has been a problem long before Israel regained independence in 1948. It goes back centuries.

I know - that is why I stop responding when I have made my point. It doesn't particularly matter on here, but it is scary to think there are people who are so blinkered on both sides at the heart of this conflict. How can peace ever be achieved if this is how the representatives of both sides think. Depressing.

" Israel existed thousands of years ago but was under various occupations until regaining independence in the 20th century"

There is no legitimacy in any claim going back thousands of years. If that's the case then all the land in NZ, Canada, the US, South American and Australia belongs to those who can prove they are indigenous.

However, the Palestinians are genetically the descendants of the people who lived in the region back then. Describing them as "Arabs" has never been accurate, mostly they are the descendants of historic converts to Islam (IE not descended from people from the Arab Peninsular.

And as people have pointed out to you the reason it's not a crime on marches is because the Met can't arrest the number of people that are chanting it. Same as they can't go after people shoplifting less than £200 worth of goods, or people using Cannabis.

And if you don't get that you're not in the 'middle' of this at all.

" With the 1948 situation, isn't a large part of the land, that was known as Palestine at the time, now the kingdom of Jordan? (like Israel, a nation/country that was under various occupations or regimes, but has been in existence for centuries"

See this just shows you have either been following propaganda or are very poorly informed on the subject.

Transjordan and the British Mandate for Palestine were separate territories.

There are so many people on here who seem weirdly comfortable with the levels of anti-Semitism both historically and presently. So comfortable, in fact, that they don't feel the need to talk about it and instead move the conversation on to a different one.

It's sad how incredibly predictable this thread has been.

"it is likely that its [River to Sea Chant] use in a wider protest setting, such as we anticipate this weekend, would NOT BE AN OFFENCE and would not result in arrests."

https://news.met.police.uk/news/update-met-response-to-terror-attacks-in-israel-and-ongoing-military-action-in-gaza-474080

Yeah, and they also won't arrest those people if they shoplift under £200 worth of goods, or carry a bit of cannabis on them.

What's your point?

Israel has a legitimate claim going back at least 70 years.

That's long enough.

Go look at the OP, some of the things that they have written, all of those things have been discussed here

Why do you think there is a large thread about Anti-Semitism right now anyway?

Police have never said that theft under £200 or possession of cannabis is NOT AN OFFENCE. They said they would not prioritise it.

Agree

The Palestinians for continuous occupation goes back far longer.,

Why aren't they allowed to return to their lands but others are? Why isn't questioning their right to self determination seen as discrimination/racism against them when it is against others?

Why are they allowed to be discriminated against and have land seized from them? Why is it ok to ignore abuses of human rights and war crimes against Palestinians?

There’s always jealousy from the left of people who work hard, make sacrifices, take risks and do well. The minute you’ve got some wealth, the left want to take it from you to give to the feckless and workshy.

What has this got to do with Jewish people? There are hard working successful people of all faiths and none, just as there are feckless workshy types among all.

There's no significance to that whatsoever given that they don't have manpower to deal with thousands of people chanting something.

Yes - I agree too. The semantics and wilful blindness defending this, make me agree more not less.

It's not their land anymore. Hasn't been for over 70 years.

As I said, that's long enough, otherwise it just gets ridiculous. Don't personally want to start claiming Africa as my own just because we all originated there.