To think Jewish people are the scapegoats of humanity?

[FactsNotFictionOnly]

I have not posted on the CITME board as although the current conflict is relevant, that is not the main point of this thread.

I do not mean to cause any offence to Jewish people. In fact the opposite.

IF THIS POST IS DELETED BECAUSE IT OFFENDS NON JEWISH PEOPLE, THEN PLEASE RESPOND WITH WHY YOU FIND IT OFFENSIVE BEFORE REPORTING.

I am an atheist and think all religion should be consigned to history books so have no affiliation with any faith but I found the reaction to Oct 7th shocking with almost immediate protests against Israel (the victim) in favour of the ‘freedom fighters’ (the agressors). The denials that atrocities happened, the antisemitism, horrifying comments on SM which are still allowed to stand to this day.

Never before in my life (and I’m getting on a bit) have I seen that reaction of hatred to any country that has been the victim of any kind of terrorist attack or act of war anywhere in the world. Never before have I been aware of the kind of atrocities committed in Israel on such a large scale by a neighbouring country, filmed by the perpetrators, either.

I had heard comments made about ‘the Jews’ at various stages in my life, how they run the world, the banks, the media etc but never really thought much about it or believed it.

I noticed an absolutely blatant lie that popped up on SM yesterday with thousands of comments agreeing with the poster so I responded (never normally do) saying so with evidence and the abuse I got was unbelievable.

That made me do a bit more research on the persecution of Jewish people through history and I was pretty shocked that they were blamed for the death of Jesus, murdering Christian children as sacrifices to be baked into flatbreads, the Black Death, World War 1, 9/11, Covid. All totally false and a lot of the time because it was a way of debtors not paying money they owed to the Jewish people who were the world’s money lenders as it was prohibited in Christianity and Islam and Jewish people were prohibited from other work.

Each time they were blamed for something whole communities were burned to death or had to flee. They were banished from England in the 12th century as well as lots of other European countries. Now I understand why there is so much hatred from the UK and Europeans as these ‘legends’ persist.

Of course in the Middle East from 586 BC they were persecuted where they were killed, forced to convert to Christianity (or pretend to to stay alive) before Islam took over, treated as 2nd class citizens, subject to high taxes and strict rules, regular pogroms and were also forced to leave their homes in their hundreds of thousands.

This was all before a return to Israel was even a thing so there was no ‘Zionism’ then which is currently the excuse for the widespread hatred of Jewish people.

Even before this current conflict there seems to have been a deliberate misunderstanding of the situation in the Middle East with a lot of relevant history missed out out.

Such as the Ottoman Empire ruled the area directly before the Mandate of Palestine and they referred to it as Southern Syria. There were no Palestinians only Arabs. Why didn’t they ‘freedom fight’ the Ottomans for their own State as surely they were occupied under the Ottomans too if they believe the land is all theirs?

I have never seen references to Palestinians being ‘occupied’ by the British either. Weird as they believe the land is theirs and always was theirs - from the River to the Sea.

Why do a lot of people ignore the constant terrorist attacks as the reason why not only Israel, but Egypt too, had to blockade Gaza after a terrorist group with a known mandate to annihilate Israel and kill Jews was elected to govern it by it’s citizens?

Why are people not understanding that this war is not a ‘normal’ war with normal rules of engagement between two uniformed military forces where civilians are afforded protection by their government, military hardware, munitions and bases are placed outside of civilian areas and civilians including children are not involved in military action by firing rockets, RPGs, shootings, stabbings, throwing IEDs, holding hostages in their homes and taking part in barbaric murders, rapes, burning people including children alive and taking hostages?

It is absolutely horrific that civilians have been killed in such a high number or at all but a lot of the deaths can be explained as above and are all due to the war Hamas started.

Why are Hamas not being publicly pressured by Palestinian protestors to give themselves up?

The only (and tiny) Jewish State in the world is now even being persecuted for defending itself against massive neighbouring states who want to wipe it out.

Has there ever been such a forensic examination of any other war while in progress as in this one?

The propaganda and false information circulating before and during this conflict has made it all too clear to see how the Holocaust happened and it’s terrifying to see. I used to watch films on the subject and wonder how could so many people have stood by and let it happen. Now we can all see how.

How can a tiny race of 1% of the population who have achieved more than any other race alive today, be so hated.

Is it jealousy of their success or the hundreds of years of lies that have been brainwashed down generations?

AIBU?

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/why-were-jews-persecuted

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

YANBU and I am shocked that the poll is so close. I especially dislike the 'from the rivers to the sea' chant, it is hateful. I am sorry for the people of Gaza, but their suffering is at least as much at the hands of Hamas as it is of Israel. I'm not condoning Israel's actions, but I do think that a lot of anti-Zionism has a lot of ugly anti Jewish feeling at its root.

Don't be silly. It really doesn't.

Chinese persecution of the Uyghurs should not let Israel off the hook

Nobody's saying it should - merely pointing out that, of all the horrible incidents worldwide, it's mainly Israel's actions which are selected for comment

As with the almost instant "But what about Palestine?" posts it's all so depressingly predictable

Agreed.

It's a good opening post. Very interesting history. I read something recently from a man who, when a boy, asked a Jewish boy in his class about eating children, because he'd been told that's what they do. And that's only about 50 years ago!
My grandad worked with a lot of Jewish people and said that they were clever, which is why people historically didn't like them and were jealous, but the thing about money lending and their debtors makes more sense, although it doesn't explain why they weren't allowed to practise other occupations in the first place.

Rubbish. It is rot like this that means that anti-zionism well never be separate from anti Semitism and why the US will have to continue to support Israel even when their actions are less than ideal.

I think you are entitled to your opinion, however, I hold a different opinion. Perhaps we can agree to disagree.

The acts of October 7 were met with a great deal of sympathy for Israel and Israeli people

For about five minutes yes, though even then there was an overall tone of "They'd got it coming"

Unfortunately the real intent was revealed when the anti-Israel demonstrations started before they even had a chance to take any retaliatory action, which is an inconvenient truth often brushed aside

Typo

Yep. That and the fact that Israel keeps coming up with a disproportionate amount of innovations and advancements for humanity compared to its population size, while good old Iran keeps coming up with proxy wars and terrorist groups like Hamas.

No one is suggesting to get rid of Jews.

What's that got to do with this thread?

Personally I think committing genocide is a bit worse than ‘less than ideal.’ It’s perfectly possible to be anti-Zionist without being antsemetic.

Google it.

It's perfectly possible to be against the existence of a Jewish state without being anti-Semitic? Whatever you say.

Unfortunately it really does.

I was trying to be helpful in pointing out that it's not an ok thing to do, but you don't seem open to the idea that Israel and Judaism shouldn't be conflated so I guess we have no choice but to agree to disagree. It's a shame because I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said, just the time and place you said it in.

Semitic people - Wikipedia
Semitic people or Semites is an obsolete term for an ethnic, cultural or racial group[2][3][4][5] associated with people of the Middle East, including Arabs, Jews, Akkadians, and Phoenicians.
But of course, Israel made it about Jews only.
However, Israel (not all Jews, I know many Jews condemns genocide in Gaza) definitely is getting away with genocide of Palestinian people.

Are you trying to redefine antisemitism?

I completely agree with you OP. I don't understand why Jewish people are hated so much and why there is historically so much support for Palestine where women are fourth class citizens. Antisemitism is everywhere, it's very noticeable even on BBC reports, anything negative done by Israel gets much bigger headlines than the appalling deeds of Hamas. I think a lot about the poor hostages, if Hamas - who started it all - freed them the whole situation would end (for now) but the media pressure is always on Israel to ceasefire not on Hamas to release the hostages.
I was at church recently. The minister prayed for the people of Palestine, not a word about the Jewish people butchered and kidnapped.
Great opening post OP, there are so many pro Palestinians clueless about the long history of that part of the Middle East.

The Houthis are quite keen on it, it forms part of their slogan. Death to Israel and a curse upon Jews.

They’re currently attacking international shipping in the Red Sea “in support of Gaza” and we have fuckwits here on the streets of London chanting about how wonderful they are.

There are plenty of Arab countries that have been quite successful in ridding themselves of Jews in recent years. Do you think that was by accident?

The last Jew in Yemen recently died.

Can you imagine if Israel drove out every Muslim person from it until there was one left. There would be rioting around the world.

Not a 'genocide'. Genocide is what the Houthi and their ilk would like to commit against jews.

Good thing, because it's not happening without getting rid of everyone else too.

I agree with you that anti-semitism is not dependent on the state of Israel. However, we cannot ignore that fact the root of the problem of Jewish people are stateless people and get kicked out every country. The British gave Jews Israel to establish a jewish state which has caused a significant upheaval for Palestinians. Whilst, European jews have some genetic ties to the Middle East they also have genetic ties to Europe and have not lived in that region for several generations. Hence, they are seen as white colonisers displacing people native to the land. A lot the recent anti-semitism is tied the current affairs.

Agreed. It is also reported that 60 million black people died during slavery and that is a race that has suffered everything from jim crow laws, to needing only recently to protest against police officers murdering those such as George Floyd. I am not sure why a comparison always need to made claiming no others have suffered, as much referencing history, and then for it to be asked why history is relevant to anti-semitism today.

As another poster said, I find the logic gymnastics undertaken to criticise Palestinean civilians, under the guise of concern about anti-semitism quite remarkable. It is arrogant to dismiss people as they don't know the history - plenty of people have a good enough understanding of what is happening - they just don't agree with the Israeli government - neither do a number of Jewish people - that does not make them anti-semitic. It is really important that as a democracy, legitimate criticism of Israel is not stifled. Why is it that American does not allow Ukraine to use US weapons ti fire into Russia, but Israel can use US weapons to demolish the whole of Gaza. Yet people claim Israel is held to a higher standard than others? No. The facts do not bear that out.

I also agree with comments on here that the lack of the British Government's condemnation of Israel when it undertakes reprehensible actions, leads people to be more vocal themselves. That is the privilege of democracy allowing free speech.