To think that the majority of trans people are neurodivergent

[SlipperSliders]

...and I sort of think it's a form of neurodivergence in itself.

By the way I'm trans affirmative.

I don't think I've met a trans person who I thought was neurotypical.

I think amongst girls, there has already been made a tentative link between being ND and trans, and that the amount of non ND girls who present as trans, is less than the ND ones. I think it's very I,portent to look at why, and whether it's an issue with not feeling like you belong in the stereotype, that makes you assume to need to comply with a different stereotype, and I hope that with the CASS report there can be a more open discussion around it all

So if you woke up tomorrow with balls and a dick, will you still feel like a woman?

But that's nonsense. This is real life, not a sci-fi film.

There is research the supports your OP. Also, three is research in area of “obsessive thinking”, and if same sex attracted, obsessively trying to figure out why. Something isn’t right, find out how to fix it. To fix the obsessive thinking about why, change gender because now it’s fixed.

OK
https://theconversation.com/you-dont-have-a-male-or-female-brain-the-more-brains-scientists-study-the-weaker-the-evidence-for-sex-differences-158005

Read up about the differences in radicalised and non radicalised brains...

I think there’s a huge link. Being ND myself it’s hard not fitting in. Finding a group that provides a way of presenting differently and accepts you into their tribe must be a very tempting proposition to many ND people.

I'd still feel like me, and I don't feel like a man or woman and never have.

How can someone born female know what it's like to be male? And vice versa.

It's literally just guessing and quite often based on stereotypes.

@BustyCrustacean yes there are massive elements of this that I see can be dangerous - protection of female spaces is something I think about in this. The more I read on here the more I am moving away from live and let live. I actually feel more compassion than anything for that sub group which is just a vulnerable and confused person.

But there are subgroups with different agendas within the trans ' group ' I would think there are those who aren't militant about it. I may be wrong as I don't actually know any trans people. I also hate doing what we are doing - telling other people why and who they are - like we do to Autistic people in general.

@Watermelonsregularly "Re language (someone up thread mentioned) ASD is offensive to much of the autistic community given the word disorder."

Both my children are ASD, both in their thirties now. As their parent, born more than 60 years ago, of course I too am quite far on the spectrum but undiagnosed.

If ASD is not a disorder, why is it in the DSM? If it's not a disorder, why were my children both profoundly grateful when they got their diagnoses (one very late) because it meant "it was not their fault"? Meaning that they weren't deliberately gauche, hard work and awkward.

ASD is a mixed hand - and generally (excuse my words) a social handicap is somewhere in that mix. This causes the person to suffer. If it's not a disorder, there is no suffering, and you're just fucking pretending to have a disability that you don't have, asking for special consideration and accommodation that you don't need.

Please think this stuff through.

With my entire hormones, physical appearance, internal female systems like utero the same? And also all my memories? Yeah of course I'd feel like a woman. What has that got to do with anything.

Yeah most of us know this. A couple of posters actually thought it was homophobic!!!

Please don't "both sides this" as this isn't true at all. The Cass Review was all about focusing on the needs of vulnerable teenagers at gender clinics. It's been opposed by the Greens and others who imagine they're being "kind" and "progressive" for doing so.

A great many people who question trans ideology (the "incredibly anti trans movements" as you put it; no, it's just people, many left wing, who are frustrated at not being listened to and shut down and abused for trying to whistleblow about vulnerable young people being pushed down irreversible medical pathways) have the vulnerable teenagers (mostly girls, mostly autistic, same sex attracted and a great many looked after children) who have been the fastest growing group seen at gender clinics.

Don't you DARE accuse women who have been fighting this bullshit for YEARS before people started noticing of not caring about this. The smears and constant lying about people's reasons for trying to raise the alarm has been a disgrace.

If I wake up one morning with a penis, I'd have to work out whether I'd gone insane and was hallucinating, or if magic existed.

Next question?

Question: are we talking about a homogeneous group here or not.

Totally possible that out of a bunch of teens who identify as trans, some are abused and confused teens who looked to trans ideology as an escape route rather than deal with their trauma and they are not going to be trans in the long term AND a group of autistic kids struggling with social relationships and sexual feelings AND there to be someone with gender dysphoria AND there to be a kid with anorexic tendencies using this as a form of self harm.

The problem is if we don't see the range of possible explanations and we just call them 'trans kids', we can't help any of them and we risk various harms to every single one as an unintended consequences of that failure to consider multiple explanations.

Cass has identified this to be the case. Therefore it's totally wrong to refer to trans children or a young trans person. They have to be trans identifying so it can be explored first without an idea being imposed and set.

Sometimes winning

read the thread.

many older gay men (and some women) find it incredibly offensive and yes homophobic.
the fact that mostly straight young people and academics have ‘reclaimed’ it doesn’t change that.

The word 'Queer' has very much been reclaimed by younger people today.

I don't know if anyone saw 'Out Loud and Proud' on ITV the other night?

Adam Lambert was chatting to Brian May and Roger Taylor. He used the word 'queer' and both Brian and Roger said they would never have called Freddie that, as it was a massive slur back in his day, unlike today.

Thinking about it and playing along with the thought experiment if I woke up tomorrow with a cock and balls but my otherwise female body I'd feel like an oddity. If I woke up in a fully male body I would probably get used to it and I definitely would have no wish to put myself through hormone treatments and surgeries. It would be quite interesting having both the female and male experience in one lifetime.

I don't know enough trans people to say the majority are ND. But every trans person I know is ND.

@verygrumpy I don't believe that being in the DSM means it deserves respect and is accurate. I do t know the answer to this, but is Borderline Personaliyy Disorder in there? Because I feel that's the biggest pile of crap I ever heard and there is always something else going on, pretty much like this ridiculous FND diagnose they're now flogging like a dead horse.

My son is Autistic. He said what does ASD stand for. I told him and he said, wow that's really hurtful and massively offensive. I sat there thinking, I'm more disordered than he is on many things, so I get it. It isn't fair or right.

If a large proportion of Autistic people didn't have to conform to an NT world, much of which is absolutely nonsensical, then I believe they wouldn't be seen as so disordered or feel they are. There are many days however that I watch my son struggle and think, yes, you are disabled by this on some level. I'm NT so it's not my place to speak for ND people, this is based on our experience.

What do you think this means for the treatment of trans people?

A couple of posters actually thought it was homophobic!!!

People used to go "queer bashing" ie assaulting gay men for sport, sometimes killing them.
Fancy thinking the term is homephobic 🙄

TwattyMcFuckFace

but why do young people (many of them not even gay) who have not experienced the prejudice and abuse that older homosexuals faced get to reclaim a word that so many find offensive?

Don't update your mindset. It's still completely unacceptable to many people. I was a young adult with friends who were beaten up by people using this word as a slur. It's as if someone said "now we have to call Black people the N word or Asian people the P word because someone told me it's been reclaimed". Please don't. You are retraumatising a whole lot of gay elders. I'm in my 50s and see this word a lot online but heard it for the first time a few months ago and it was just horrible to hear it again.

Anyway, back to the OP. I have seen explanations that many autistic people are not that bothered about conforming in general (probably true) and this carries over into being more gender non-conforming (also probably true) so don't find it as unusual to transition.

I find the last part a huge leap. If you didn't care about what society thought of you why not just be a girl who likes trains? Why does being gender non conforming make you a boy?

I suspect it's more likely a mixture of social contagion (naturally if you are autistic you will get on well with your neuro diverse tribe so will listen to what they say on things), special interests (the huge long list of genders with precise definitions is very similar to a huge long list of D&D characters/My Little Ponies/trains/dinosaurs/animal behaviour facts) and black and white thinking (if you aren't like other girls, you can't be a girl).

I find the evidence for biological differences weak at best.

It's ageist to fail to acknowledge the experience of older homosexuals.

If we were talking about race and had a similar conversation...