Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Starmer, JKR, what's most important to most women?

1000 replies

PupInAPram · 22/06/2024 13:14

In my more than 60 years, decades of being a single working parent, many experiences of being on the bones of my arse, Labour Party policies have made huge beneficial differences in my day-to-day life. Worrying if there is a man in the next toilet or feeling uncomfortable with a trans woman has literally never been on my radar. If I'm making a decision about voting for the politician who can bring about the greatest good for the greatest number, it's Starmer every time. I wish JKR would just pipe down.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
32
pleasehelpwi3 · 22/06/2024 18:24

AlwaysGinPlease · 22/06/2024 17:24

@pleasehelpwi3 oh shhh your nonsense trying to suggest homophobia where there is none. Very telling though.

The moment you start telling people 'ohh shhh your nonsense' is certainly the moment you lose the argument!

Shimmyshimmycocobop · 22/06/2024 18:24

You seem to only be responding to those who agree with you, a typical AIBU thread I guess. Myself, I'm politically homeless, this is not a single issue when it affects 51% of the population and has potentially terrible consequences for those neuro diverse/gay children in years to come.
However, in the absence of a decent independent candidate I will probably hold my nose and vote Labour. I'm so disappointed in them however, especially Starmer.

DrNickedMaCorpus · 22/06/2024 18:24

PupInAPram · 22/06/2024 18:23

You are making huge assumptions about my views about trans women. The thread has drifted right away from my original assertion. The things that have affected my life and the lives of the women around me are social inequality, underfunded public services like the NHS and schools and a general level of corruption and incompetence following 14 years of Tory rule. The number of times my life and the lives of the women around me have actually been impacted by an encounter with a scary trans women is zero.

Lucky you. Some of us have different experiences. You want we should shut up about them in case.we damage Labour's chances? I'm afraid I have bad news.

TheKeatingFive · 22/06/2024 18:24

The number of trans people is tiny.

This is spectacularly missing the point though.

The number of men who will now be able to access women's single sex spaces is anyone who fancies it. Potentially every single one if they're sufficiently motivated. All they have to do is get 1 GP to sign off on their GRC.

Sloejelly · 22/06/2024 18:25

TheKeatingFive · 22/06/2024 18:17

Poll results tend to differ dramatically when people find out that more than 90% of 'transwomen' keep their male genitalia

30% of the public think transwomen are women who identify as men, not men who identify as their fantasy of what they think a woman is.

TheKeatingFive · 22/06/2024 18:25

Sloejelly · 22/06/2024 18:25

30% of the public think transwomen are women who identify as men, not men who identify as their fantasy of what they think a woman is.

Exactly. There is so much misunderstanding

QueenBitch666 · 22/06/2024 18:26

A brave articulate woman defending womens rights should 'pipe down'
Aren't you a charmer 🙄

EasternStandard · 22/06/2024 18:26

PupInAPram · 22/06/2024 18:23

You are making huge assumptions about my views about trans women. The thread has drifted right away from my original assertion. The things that have affected my life and the lives of the women around me are social inequality, underfunded public services like the NHS and schools and a general level of corruption and incompetence following 14 years of Tory rule. The number of times my life and the lives of the women around me have actually been impacted by an encounter with a scary trans women is zero.

I’m asking you if you have any limits

Men in female sports? Puberty blockers? Self ID?

That’s the reality if women do as you want and stop voicing their views (which they won’t tg)

So I’m asking is that the outcome you want?

You seem to be working against the changes women bring but maybe you haven’t thought it through, hence the question. Do you have those limits and how would they be put in place?

AutumnCrow · 22/06/2024 18:27

It's a bloody peculiar tactic to 'encourage' left-leaning female voters to vote Labour by insulting and denigrating them. I mean, it's putting me off more than it's attracting me.

ThreeWordHarpy · 22/06/2024 18:27

Clarabell77 · 22/06/2024 18:09

But surely the men who would want to do such things have always been around?

Yes! And until 5 minutes ago, any woman who found a man in a single sex facility could call for help and the man would be evicted as there would be no good reason for him to be in there. It used to cause problems for dads who were escorting their daughters at swimming for example, and was one of the drivers for the wider roll out of family changing rooms.

FOJN · 22/06/2024 18:27

Clarabell77 · 22/06/2024 17:58

For fucks sake, I don’t think any part of you is actually thinking tbh. The Scottish government did NOT put a male sex attacker in a women’s prison. He was initially in the women’s prison estate - SEGREGATED! and was swiftly transferred to the men’s where he belongs.

Why was a man charged with sexual offences as Adam Graham being assessed in a women's prison at all?

If he can be segregated in a women's prison he can be segregated in a men's prison.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64729029

hihelenhi · 22/06/2024 18:28

MrsSunshine2b · 22/06/2024 18:05

They are quoting YouGov stats which show that most people are spectacularly unbothered about trans people. It's just that all the frothers at the mouth are here on Mumsnet clutching their pearls.

Nobody's "pearl-clutching". You're mostly talking to Gen X women who grew up with punk, not Victorians or wartime generation. We don't live in the 1950s - that's the people who think pink n blue sex stereotypes and whether you played with Barbie as a child is actually what determines whether you're "really" male or female, and that if you're a teenage girl who fancies girls or doesn't like her body or want to cake herself with makeup, she can't be a "real woman" and needs a double mastectomy and lifelong synthetic medication that'll give her osteoporosis in her 20s.

Also that middle aged married straight men can suddenly state they're "lesbians" and have "always been women" but strangely like to call themselves "girls" and aren't interested in any surgery but boob jobs. And meanwhile, there are women being lied about, losing their jobs, having to go to tribunals, demonised for saying no, for talking about basic facts, not being asked if they were happy to share their spaces in the first place, threatened with violence if they don't pander, while politicians like Starmer are too scared of their well-funded lobby so STILL continue enabling it, even to the point of failing to support their own MPs who've been threatened with death. Meanwhile, there's the "kind helpfulness" of nice sheltered usually middle class women who don't understand fetishes and think pandering to the men who've suddenly appeared in their women's groups and spaces and excommunicating any woman who questions them is somehow being "kind".

We're talking about something that you haven't noticed. That's your problem.

Oh, and it's less about "trans people" (can you define what that is, btw?) than it is about WOMEN. It's also about democracy, equality, human rights, the rule of law, safeguarding, and what checks and balances there are around the influence of lobby groups.

So the human, legal and democratic rights of ALL women. I'm sorry you still haven't managed to figure it out yet. But that doesn't mean the rest of us haven't.

Sloejelly · 22/06/2024 18:28

homophobia = telling lesbians they must do dick because the man in question identifies as a woman.

illinivich · 22/06/2024 18:28

Sloejelly · 22/06/2024 18:25

30% of the public think transwomen are women who identify as men, not men who identify as their fantasy of what they think a woman is.

I think thats why starmer is finding it difficult to define what a woman is. He obviously knows, but he doesn't want to answer the next obvious questions - what is a TW, and how are they different to any other man?

DrNickedMaCorpus · 22/06/2024 18:28

TheKeatingFive · 22/06/2024 18:24

The number of trans people is tiny.

This is spectacularly missing the point though.

The number of men who will now be able to access women's single sex spaces is anyone who fancies it. Potentially every single one if they're sufficiently motivated. All they have to do is get 1 GP to sign off on their GRC.

Yep. One male doctor identifying as a woman. How many women patients does he affect?

One violent male in a womans prison? How many female prisoners does he affect?

One male rugby player on a women's team. How many women does he threaten?

MrsSkylerWhite · 22/06/2024 18:28

DrNickedMaCorpus · Today 18:23
MrsSkylerWhite · Today 18:22

TuesdayWhistler · Today 13:30
I've never had cancer and no one I know has had cancer, so why should I want my tax money going to find it's treatment?
Doesn't affect me, it doesn't exist

Dont be silly. 1 in 2 people will have cancer. I’m waiting to find out whether I have it a second time. With the best will in the world, the two don’t compare at all. The number of trans people is tiny.

Women are half the population”

Well yes. Slightly more, I think. What’s your point?

1 in 2 people of either sex will develop cancer in their lifetime.

The number of women (or men) impacted by trans people is very small indeed because there are very few trans people.

thefireplace · 22/06/2024 18:30

EasternStandard · 22/06/2024 18:17

You are obviously very Labour loyal and that is your main concern

But do you not want any changes wrt this issue?

Would you have been ok with Self ID for instance?
Men in refuges and sports
Puberty blockers?

Starmer I’m sure is happy you would put it all aside for his career but do you have any limits?

All you lists has or is happening under the Tories, even the puberty blockers will still be allowed as "medical trials"

For me, JKR is just another wealthy person with little else to worry about, when she needs healthcare or a dentist, she just pays for it, need some counselling? go private, roads potholed? fly, buy a Range Rover.

She will never have a bill she cannot pay, cost of living? what cost of living!

All the GC posters on here need to take note that JKR isn't voting Tory but what she is doing, by voting independent, is ensuring the incumbent Tory gets to stay in and that just makes women & childrens rights fall even further.

100s of '000s of children are on long term NHS waiting lists, forgotten by this Govt.

WandsOut · 22/06/2024 18:30

SergeantDawkins · 22/06/2024 13:32

So.. the ideal government would do what exactly to support a trans woman who has been abused by a man? How will they protect her? She can’t go to a “women’s” shelter.

My point is we keep trying to fit a non-binary concept into our binary world. The answer is to change the world not change or deny the people.

If trans activists like yourself campaigned for third spaces as aggressive as they campaign for men to be in women's spaces you'd have them by now.

MrsSkylerWhite · 22/06/2024 18:32

TheKeatingFive · Today 18:24
The number of trans people is tiny.
**
This is spectacularly missing the point though.
**
The number of men who will now be able to access women's single sex spaces is anyonewho fancies it. Potentially every single one if they're sufficiently motivated. All they have to do is get 1 GP to sign off on their GRC”

Do you believe that vast numbers of men are going to do so?

BIossomtoes · 22/06/2024 18:32

FOJN · 22/06/2024 18:27

Why was a man charged with sexual offences as Adam Graham being assessed in a women's prison at all?

If he can be segregated in a women's prison he can be segregated in a men's prison.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64729029

If he’s segregated what does it matter?

Sloejelly · 22/06/2024 18:33

Just to clarify, this study involved 188 men who identified as trans, who collectively reported just 16 incidents. The men who identified as trans were NOT at higher risk of ‘victimisation’ than either women or men who did not identify as trans. Neither was the household of men who identified as trans more at risk. https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7958056/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7958056/

https://t.co/hDpvZ3yrRT

hihelenhi · 22/06/2024 18:33

MrsSkylerWhite · 22/06/2024 18:28

DrNickedMaCorpus · Today 18:23
MrsSkylerWhite · Today 18:22

TuesdayWhistler · Today 13:30
I've never had cancer and no one I know has had cancer, so why should I want my tax money going to find it's treatment?
Doesn't affect me, it doesn't exist

Dont be silly. 1 in 2 people will have cancer. I’m waiting to find out whether I have it a second time. With the best will in the world, the two don’t compare at all. The number of trans people is tiny.

Women are half the population”

Well yes. Slightly more, I think. What’s your point?

1 in 2 people of either sex will develop cancer in their lifetime.

The number of women (or men) impacted by trans people is very small indeed because there are very few trans people.

No.

The number of women affected by "trans people" is every single woman whose legal rights are dismantled, without discussion or consent, in an effort to pander to the wants of "trans people" (or "men who want to be women", let's face it; nobody cares about the wants of trans men, nor any "danger" that they present . Probably because they're the actual females and don't)

It affects 51% of the population. It's every right that women who fought for it in the past earned for you.

thefireplace · 22/06/2024 18:33

WandsOut · 22/06/2024 18:30

If trans activists like yourself campaigned for third spaces as aggressive as they campaign for men to be in women's spaces you'd have them by now.

So the issues have been caused by underfunding our public services?

illinivich · 22/06/2024 18:33

The number of women (or men) impacted by trans people is very small indeed because there are very few trans people.

One man enters a womens open plan changing room every day for 5 years, how many women are impacted by his behaviour?

334bu · 22/06/2024 18:34

Do you believe that vast numbers of men are going to do so?

Who cares, it only takes one bad apple!

If he’s segregated what does it matter?

So segregate him in a men's prison!

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread