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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Starmer, JKR, what's most important to most women?

1000 replies

PupInAPram · 22/06/2024 13:14

In my more than 60 years, decades of being a single working parent, many experiences of being on the bones of my arse, Labour Party policies have made huge beneficial differences in my day-to-day life. Worrying if there is a man in the next toilet or feeling uncomfortable with a trans woman has literally never been on my radar. If I'm making a decision about voting for the politician who can bring about the greatest good for the greatest number, it's Starmer every time. I wish JKR would just pipe down.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
32
Llamasinjamas · 22/06/2024 15:32

Women’s rights are most important to me and my young daughter. The cheek of you saying a woman giving an articulate and informed view on something you clearly know nothing about should ‘pipe down

This ^

hihelenhi · 22/06/2024 15:32

DancingFeetzzz · 22/06/2024 15:28

It’s the same old bullying obsessed posters trotting out the same stuff and ignoring any other opinion V posters who are sick and bored of it.

So you're happy for all other women to lose all single sex spaces and most of their rights (hey, just hand them back, we don't need them, right?) and those of future generations of girls then? So sure it won't ever affect you. Sorry if it's too tiresome for you for bother with, but not everyone is that complacent.

heldinadream · 22/06/2024 15:32

SergeantDawkins · 22/06/2024 14:38

How would I know the answer to that question. Only they would know that .

I’m sorry I am not making that comparison about what happened to you, no, the example was just saying can’t use one incident to make a broad assumption about a group of people. It’s terrible that happened to you but it does not change or affect the likelihood of other trans women or men-pre transition , being attackers. But a lot of people on here like to use single events to make broad assumptions about entire groups.

I don't think I've ever seen such an insulting reply to a woman who's been raped.
He was a man then. He's a man now. And I'm bloody sure @risefromyourgrave knew he was a man when she was being raped.
I am appalled at you @SergeantDawkins
You are a rape apologist.

TheKeatingFive · 22/06/2024 15:32

To listen to women on here, you'd think Duffield was some kind of saint. The reality appears to be she's a not very effective MP who was happy to say "women have cervixes" at a controversial time

Why should it ever be controversial to point out a basic biological fact? 🫠

Conkersinautumn · 22/06/2024 15:33

Absolutely. OP. As usual the rhetoric of rich entitled people, using their platform to bang incessentantly on about what grinds their precious gold plated gears affects my life not one little bit. Itd be nice to see someone with wealth and privilege shutting up about what affects those struggling right now and create space for those actually experiencing challenges.

DancingFeetzzz · 22/06/2024 15:33

hihelenhi · 22/06/2024 15:24

She knows she can speak without being cancelled on behalf of women who don't have that privilege. That is a good and ethical use of the power she has. Other women have been silenced because of their need to make a living and the threats and campaigns from activists to lose them their employment. As a DV victim herself, JK can spot an abusive man at 50 paces. She has also put her money where her mouth is - into women's services, as well as other charities. Plenty of evidence.

Your smearing of a woman who has done far more than you will EVER do to help other women without your privilege because she understands domestic abuse through personal experience is shameful. Utterly. Tell me if you'd do the same as she has if you'd gone from an abused single mother on benefits to a multi millionaire, would you have set up women's shelters, and spoken up for abused women like she has, or would you just have spent it all on yourself?

Oh don’t be ridiculous. You know nothing about me or my life. Nothing. A billionaire setting up a few shelters doesn’t make her a saint who gets to constantly spit HER opinion.

And smearing given over. She is the one continuously deflecting from far more pressing issues women in this country are struggling with. The arrogance is staggering. She has written some books. Woopy do! It doesn’t give her the God given right to constantly bang on about her hobby horse and lecture to the rest of women living in the real world.

334bu · 22/06/2024 15:33

Fighting against the removal of hard fought for female only services is not anti-trans but trans activists demanding that men have access to these female only services is anti women.

Springwatch123 · 22/06/2024 15:33

TheKeatingFive · 22/06/2024 15:05

But a violent man in a dress in the toilets is not a trans woman.

Why not? What criteria do they not fulfil?

So can someone tell me if a see a man wearing a dress entering the ladies toilet, how I can tell it’s a ‘true’ trans woman, and not a ‘violent man in a dress’ ?

illinivich · 22/06/2024 15:33

The reality appears to be she's a not very effective MP who was happy to say "women have cervixes" at a controversial time.

She should have waited until labour men learnt what a cervix is. All of this is her fault, really.

DancingFeetzzz · 22/06/2024 15:34

hihelenhi · 22/06/2024 15:32

So you're happy for all other women to lose all single sex spaces and most of their rights (hey, just hand them back, we don't need them, right?) and those of future generations of girls then? So sure it won't ever affect you. Sorry if it's too tiresome for you for bother with, but not everyone is that complacent.

Women in this country have far more pressing issues to base their vote on. Staggering that she can’t see that.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 22/06/2024 15:34

It’s the same old bullying obsessed posters trotting out the same stuff and ignoring any other opinion V posters who are sick and bored of it.

It's the same old waaaahhh you just hate transpeople! They are harmless because they've declared themselves trans! Nobody can ever explain how it's a trans problem when we don't mind transmen in our spaces? Why is that?

How about you try addressing the many reasonable points put to you?

What if a 25 year old said he was truly 13? Would that be ok?

EasternStandard · 22/06/2024 15:34

DancingFeetzzz · 22/06/2024 15:33

Oh don’t be ridiculous. You know nothing about me or my life. Nothing. A billionaire setting up a few shelters doesn’t make her a saint who gets to constantly spit HER opinion.

And smearing given over. She is the one continuously deflecting from far more pressing issues women in this country are struggling with. The arrogance is staggering. She has written some books. Woopy do! It doesn’t give her the God given right to constantly bang on about her hobby horse and lecture to the rest of women living in the real world.

‘Spit’? And the rest.

JKR can voice her opinion and happily she has the funds and success to make an impact

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/06/2024 15:35

CassieMaddox · 22/06/2024 15:30

You have absolutely no idea why he's not supporting Rosie Duffield. There is enough in the public domain about some of her other views and issues with her staff for me to think that "It's because he's a misogynist" or "it's because she's GC" are too simplistic.

To listen to women on here, you'd think Duffield was some kind of saint. The reality appears to be she's a not very effective MP who was happy to say "women have cervixes" at a controversial time ConfusedThere appears to be a bit of "cult of personality" going on.

So threats and VAWG is fine if they're "bad women? Non compliant women? Women who refuse to obey men?

A surprising world view to find on Mumsnet. He should have stood up for her from the outset.

DancingFeetzzz · 22/06/2024 15:36

EasternStandard · 22/06/2024 15:34

‘Spit’? And the rest.

JKR can voice her opinion and happily she has the funds and success to make an impact

As can any other rich celebrity and the vast majority of the country are sick of it.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 22/06/2024 15:36

Why should it ever be controversial to point out a basic biological fact? 🫠

So fucking wild! What is it about reality that people fear?

hihelenhi · 22/06/2024 15:36

PupInAPram · 22/06/2024 15:31

Please don't call people idiots because they disagree with you. Thank you.

Sorry, but I don't care if it upsets you. People who make false accusations against others like this are idiots. I've been called a lot worse, and so have friends of mine who've been threatened with violence and the loss of their jobs for standing up for women's rights on this issue.

CassieMaddox · 22/06/2024 15:37

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/06/2024 15:31

@PupInAPram In your more than 60 years, Labour have hardly been in power. You had ten years under Tony Blair and three years under Gordon Brown. The last time Labour won an election before that was in 1976, when you probably weren't even old enough to vote. So I think it's probably a bit of a stretch to say that Labour policies have made a huge difference to your life, since they've almost always been in opposition.

YABU to say that JKR or any other woman needs to shut up and stop talking about women's rights.

OMG Shock
Labour under Blair did so much for the less privileged in this country and their children. 13 years out if 40 years of being an adult (if PP is 60) is well long enough for her to have an opinion on it.

My adult life has been "a game of two halves" - 13 years Labour and 14 Tories. I know which years felt better, easier and more pleasant despite me earning far far less.

mumda · 22/06/2024 15:37

If a government doesn't get basic human biology right and allows the destruction of the right to single sex spaces then they are not worth a sod.

It might not affect you today but one day soon it will.

NoSnowdrop · 22/06/2024 15:37

Plenty of trans women are feminine and unnoticeable as trans.

the above simply illustrates how regressive and misogynistic gender identity ideology is.

women don’t all have long hair, wear makeup or wear pink or high heels or whatever it is you mean by feminine. By your rationale @SergeantDawkins where does that leave gender non-conforming women, the ones with short hair wearing “masculine” clothes? Are they then “trans”?

the only “hate” on this thread is towards women and girls and I’m sick of the lazy arguments against us.

GenericWoman · 22/06/2024 15:38

Worrying if there is a man in the next toilet or feeling uncomfortable with a trans woman has literally never been on my radar. If I'm making a decision about voting for the politician who can bring about the greatest good for the greatest number, it's Starmer every time. I wish JKR would just pipe down.

Did you read her article? "Pipe Down" is the most utterly patronising phrase and only ever directed at women. You are shameful and disgraceful for using that phrase about a woman just expressing her opinion. Who are you to tell her - tell anyone - expressing an opinion to shut up? I disagree with what you have written but I wouldn't tell you to 'pipe down'.

The article was partly about a book she has contributed to is called The Women Who Wouldn’t Wheesht, which she says " the book of essays to which I contributed, and which came out last month. “Wheesht” is a Scots injunction to be quiet: “haud your wheesht” means “hush!”"

This is a quote from her article:

"Two hours before I watched Starmer fail, yet again, to get off the fence he’s so reluctant to stop straddling, I met the woman who wrote what I think all contributors would agree is the most important chapter in The Women Who Wouldn’t Wheesht. It’s called A Hashtag is Born. The writer coined the phrase “women won’t wheesht”, which has now been taken up as a feminist battle cry in Scotland and beyond.

She wrote anonymously about being smeared as a bigot and a transphobe for wanting female-only intimate care for her beautiful learning-disabled daughter (I know her daughter’s beautiful, because I met her, too). In part, this mother wrote: “The material reality of a man is not changed by how he perceives himself, and telling vulnerable women and girls to ignore their own discomfort to accommodate a man’s perception of himself, is gaslighting.”

I cannot vote for any politician who takes issue with that mother’s words.

If you choose to prevaricate and patronise rather than address her concerns, if you continue to insist that the most vulnerable must embrace your luxury beliefs, no matter the cost to themselves, I don’t trust your judgment and I have a poor opinion of your character."

The point here is not about whether you have an issue with transgender men in loos, it is about the fact that young women and girls are having rights erroded.

Would you be happy for a little girl going camping on a first Brownie excursion to HAVE to share a tent with a boy with a penis who has decided he is identifying as a girl?

If you were in prison, would you want to share a cell with a male rapist with a penis who is in your female prison because he has decided he is identifying as a girl?

Would you want your daughter, starting menstruation, to have to be dealing with that and the bullying and invasion of privacy that goes with having mixed sex bathrooms, changing rooms and showers at school?

If you are dying of cancer, vulnerable, dependent on others to clean you, wash you, take care of your urine and bowel movements - would you want that on a mixed sex ward? Would you want a choice about whether your genitals are cleaned by a woman?

THIS is why it matters.

EasternStandard · 22/06/2024 15:38

DancingFeetzzz · 22/06/2024 15:36

As can any other rich celebrity and the vast majority of the country are sick of it.

You can’t really speak for others. Even this thread is majority yabu

I’m glad JKR is talking about this and can see plenty of other women are too

What is your preference btw? Men in female sports?

DancingFeetzzz · 22/06/2024 15:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TheKeatingFive · 22/06/2024 15:38

illinivich · 22/06/2024 15:33

The reality appears to be she's a not very effective MP who was happy to say "women have cervixes" at a controversial time.

She should have waited until labour men learnt what a cervix is. All of this is her fault, really.

Edited

Well now that big man Tony's cleared everything up, at least we can reference basic biology again. Phew.

EasternStandard · 22/06/2024 15:39

TheKeatingFive · 22/06/2024 15:38

Well now that big man Tony's cleared everything up, at least we can reference basic biology again. Phew.

Two Labour men having a con flab ignoring women

No thanks

greengreyblue · 22/06/2024 15:39

No she shouldn’t pipe down! Fgs. I’m glad she’s got them to clarify protected single sex spaces for biological women . I was voting Labour anyway but glad of her voicing that.

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