AIBU to insist my son has the suspension lifted?

[NightmareATschool]

First time in trouble for any kind of physical altercation

My son is in year 8 and yesterday was pinned to the ground, twisting his wrist behind his back as he went down ( we went to a&e to have it checked after school as swollen and bruised ) and was then held down by this boy.

My son is 5 foot 5 and the other pupil is at least 5 foot 9 and a lot bigger built.

The boy was pinning him down with his legs trapped underneath him and his holding both of his arms on my sons right arm ( fingerprint bruising is visible because of this ) so my son used his left arm to hit out and hit the boys head.

Boy then get off and walks across the playground and son sits on a bench holding his sore arm.

The boy then returns, runs at him from the side view and punches down on my sons head.

SLT state both to be suspended due to violence.

I have started absolutely not, that the violence is on completely different levels and one was very much in self defence and one was completely premeditated.

I’ve sent in the complaint from from the schools complain procedure policy and I’ve CCd the SEN governors as my son has ADHD.

This happened at 11am yesterday and he spent the entire day in isolation, only being allowed to go to the lunch hall to get something to eat and then return to isolation.
Surely this is punishment enough for defending yourself whilst pinned to the ground?

Thoughts?
Anything else I could do? Thanks

But I do agree with the rest of what @Buntycat has advised

I was completely on your side until the water bottle update.

ok so it was a generic water bottle, he wasn’t aware it belonged to someone. My questions would be why did the other boy attack your son and not the 2 boys originally kicking the bottle?

Normally my position would be fine, school rules say suspension when using violence to defend themselves. I’d be telling the school verbally in front of my child my child did nothing wrong, put it in writing then taking my child out for some fun during the suspension, there would be no consequences at home.

if the attack happened because my child willingly or unwittingly did something to instigate the attack. I would be talking to them about how their actions, innocent or not had started this. We don’t know if there was something else going on with the other child or not. They aren’t in trouble at home but at school we will take the punishment, noting our disagreement but hope they learn from the situation to be careful going forward.

I am writing this as a secondary school teacher with behavioural responsibility. As others have said, it might not have arrived yet but if they are going ahead with the suspension they have to send paperwork and on there it gives you how you can appeal. If you win the appeal, the suspension days are removed from your child’s record. If you send your child in on Monday and they are accepted into lessons as normal, they have decided not to suspend. If he is put in isolation, they may still count it as a suspension on his record (and just not tell you) so you need to get that clarified if you are adamant that he should not be suspended over this.
From what you have said, and what you say you have been told, it sounds like a knee-jerk ‘suspend both cos they both hit each other’ reaction from the school. It is very likely that you were the second call, the first being to the other child’s parent who responded with ‘well my kid was hit too what are you going to do about that’ and the response, to pacify, was ‘he’ll be suspended too’. Not ideal, not if we are honest what should happen but unfortunately what does happen sometimes.

If you can, take him in on Monday morning and ask to speak face to face with someone. Explain the situation and what you were told over the phone. If the story hasn’t changed , a reasonable face to face conversation fresh on Monday morning will probably yield much better results than a fraught Friday afternoon phone call.

I find it hard to believe that a SEND child who had done nothing more than join friends in kicking a bottle, then defend himself against a physical attack, would be suspended. If that is in fact the case the OP should take it further, as I said.

exactly

the op insisting on getting the suspension lifted will get her precisely no where

let the investigation commence and i’m sure it will all come out in the wash

My daughter was being bullied and the school wanted to sit the two girls together to talk it out.

These bloody spineless schools taking such a stupid neutral stance only encourage.

i’m curious whether this policy is documented anywhere

If your son attends school on Monday they may make it an internal suspension, meaning sitting in a Reflection room or wherever he sat the day it happened (different names in different schools). I would be prepared to attend a meeting on Monday if they do decide to do this. I would think it highly unlikely thst they issued a consequence that they deem fit, for you to fill in an online complaint form and your son to just return to lessons. I would expect you to have a meeting with the head to discuss.

Because educators, and the police too, don’t want to criminalise 13 year olds unless it’s absolutely unavoidable.

The boy was way out of order and deserves punishing, and could be a serial bully which may justify a police interview.

Or he could be an ordinarily decent kid who just had a moment of madness and has never been in trouble before . In which case school sanctions should be sufficient surely?

The OP said that school have investigated, she was told that there were witnesses and she was told a version of events by a member of SLT which matched her son’s version.
As far as I can see (from the perspective of working in a school) nothing further will ‘come out in the wash’. The wash has been done. The phone call was the clothes being put in the dryer.
If the school are saying the boy is suspended for kicking another students water bottle, it’s a ridiculous reason but it’s their reason and if they are prepared to write that down then fine; respect other people’s property etc. If the back story is the three boys had taken the water bottle, were kicking it about and wouldn’t return it so the other child lost it and went for OP son to get it back as he was the last one with it /refused to give it back then again; I could see the justification there. What I think the OP is objecting to is she has been told he has been suspended for physical violence while also being told that the only physical violence he displayed was hitting someone to get them off him. So that is why she needs to pursue it further because as I say from school’s perspective this is sorted now.

A mother knows her child. In my experience the school staff will do what involves them in the least hassle not what is right.

The same happened with my autistic daughter. She was being systematically bullied by another girl and her gang who would follow her around calling her names when my daughter finally snapped and turned around and said something unkind to the bully once, the school decided to investigate and then decided it was six of one and half a dozen of the other and they weren't going to do anything. Neither of my children are in school anymore. I don't trust schools to keep my kids safe. They seem to be woefully inadequate at all of the aspects of their jobs and I have no idea why.

It being the first time in trouble for a physical alteration doesn't lessen the facts it's a physical alteration.

You weren't there so don't know your son's actions. It's likely the school staff do and can view CCTV.

They don't give fixed term exclusions to kids who haven't done anything wrong.

Sorry but the ‘mother knows her child’ bit is generally bollocks, loads of kids lie and the parents who refuse to believe overwhelming evidence because ‘Jonny said that…’ is actually one of the main things wrong with school today.
However, the OP said she got the same story from school which is why I’ve contributed to try and support with possible next steps.

I’m afraid "a mother knows her child" is not always true. A few years ago I was involved in a case where a mother made an accusation of what amounted to assault by a teacher on her young child, at a specific time that day. The time was crucial as there might have been no witnesses at that moment. The child was adamant that the teacher had done it and the mother was adamant that she knew her child and the child wouldn't lie. The teacher totally denied it.

It progressed to the local Safeguarding Officer - until we realised that the accused teacher, who worked part-time, had not even been in school at that time, as proved by the signing-in procedures, and had in fact had no contact at all with that class that day. Eventually the child admitted she made it up because she disliked the teacher, but the mother still wouldn't accept that her little darling had lied to her.

Document the injuries. Make a police report. Write to the school with crime reference number and ask the teachers/ governors to cooperate with the assault investigation.

I’m not quite sure why I keep replying as this is not my child or my school, but I think it’s important to note that the OP has said she got the same story from the school as her child and she was told this was after investigation.
In this instance, as I have already said, I would take it further even if it is just for clarification. If there are things she has not been told which put a different perspective on things, fine. But IMHO she does have the right ask further questions base on what age has told us.
I would imagine this thread will quickly split into two; the ‘my child was bullied and nothing was done all schools are shit’ side and the ‘no smoke without fire’ side. From a school’s perspective; no we don’t always get it right, yes that does impact individuals and that’s horrible when it happens. Which is why I am suggesting a calm conversation where hopefully the OP may make some progress.

So the drip feed

Your son was with two other boys kicking another boys waterbottle about (bullying the waterbottle boy) and dc says he didn't know it was someone else's waterbortle.

Waterbottle boy reacted and pin son down etc then your son hit him in the head

Your son is no squeaky clean as you make out in your initial post. He participated in kicking another child's property about (doesn't matter the type of bottle)

So yes isolation was appropriate immediately after as your son took part on bullying behaviour even if he didn't realise who's water bottle it was

I would op. Apparently mumsnet thinks kids are incapable of telling the truth and always lie to their parents. The fact he's never been in trouble for this type of behaviour before speaks for itself really

My last contribution because I’m boring myself now.
If the OP son is being suspended for bullying, or something like that, then that is what needs to be on the suspension paperwork. Hence my suggestion of a further conversation for clarification. Even if it’s just so the son is 100% clear what he has done wrong.

My son saw his 2 friends kicking a water bottle around so joined them.
Not a water bottle from home but a clear one purchaser from the school canteen type one.
He didn’t realise it was this boys bottle as doesn’t know this boy at all.

@NightmareATschool Well thank you for the extra information. This explanation is one of 'The Flaws' mentioned by @Sirzy in that something must have happened before the rest of it, for it all to kick off and you made it sound as if it all happened for no good reason

So what actually happened was the other boy was being bullied. You will only have your sons word for it that he just joined the friends in the bottle kicking and didn't know where the bottle came from. Even if that's true ( which I would have to say, I strongly doubt), but even if it is, he became involved in a bullying matter without finding out why they were kicking the bottle about.

Sounds like the other child is the victim here, and was retaliating, not your son. I would have been using this whole situation to have a discussion around bullying and behaviour in general. I would also be supporting the school in their 'consequences'.

Not only are you not supporting them, you want the suspension lifted and you have reported it to the police? YABVU

This is the result of really stupid “zero tolerance” policies.

Yes @NightmareATschool I agree with the bit about kids lying.

But have you read the update 'drip feed' where she says her son was involved in bullying but 'he didn't know'. No witness is going to be able to say that 'he didn't know', because they would need to be mind-readers.

The OP needs to be given further information. If her son is being suspended for bullying then absolutely this needs to be dealt with at home and the suspension paperwork needs to reflect this.

As for the assault, in every school I have worked in we have told parents they can report an incident to the police if they wish to and we will give the police what they ask for. So rest assured, the police will soon get to the bottom of any reason for the assault.

Maybe I am too trusting of people at face value, but from what I read the OP was upset and confused because she was told her son was suspended for physical assault, and the only physical assault he did was hit someone to get them off him and she had been told that by the school following their investigation. If there is more, she needs to know. If she has already been told more and we don’t know; well hopefully the advice regarding how I read the situation might be useful to others.