Terrorists' vandalising Stone Henge and trying to force govt policy

[FoxJTT047101111]

We need the security services to shut the group down when they are carrying out what can be described as terrorist methods to influence govt policy.

So if it's 'worked' because it's headline news, does JSO disband and go home patting themselves on the back because the climate crisis has been averted?

Terrorism isn't confined to directly killing people. If I burn down one house in your street until the government agrees to my demands that is terrorism even if no one dies.

They are saying "Your democracy is over. You will obey us now",

Even though the ones in the front line are a bunch of useless twats their intent and that of those funding them is a serious matter and they should be treated accordingly.

Oh if only that were true. But let’s say there is a chance that the 1% of scientists that don’t agree with the overall premise that climate change is human driven are right. With risk assessments you work out;

1 The probability of something happening
2 The consequences if it does.

So the vast majority of scientists are in agreement so the probability is high.
The consequences are utterly catastrophic.

So in my analogy above. My roof is looking like it’s about to cave in. I’ve got a crowd of 9 builders, structural engineers etc shouting that it’s about to collapse on me, they are worried so they are a bit vexed, loud and shouting that I should get out. But then there is one builder with a fag hanging out of his mouth saying ‘nah, looks ok to me love’.

Whose advice should I follow? I’d really like to believe my roof is fine, I don’t want to move, it’s all a bit scary and the shouty crowd of 9 are really getting on my tits.

But what would the sensible thing be?

Nope. They keep on keeping on until…..well….we….just…stop….

Ah yes, the time, money and effort excuse. Much easier to don a high viz vest and sit on a tube train shouting slogans.

And easier still to stick your fingers in your ears while sneering at anyone trying to influence the government to stop approving new oil projects for the sake of averting environmental disaster.

Brilliant! I think I’ve got some in

Some protesters were recently convicted for damaging windows of a bank that has been bankrolling oil drilling. And JSO also targeted private jets. So they do, but actions involving monuments and art works capture the press’s attention more.

No, you're missing the point. It hasn't. Talking and coverage are not achievements or positive things in themselves. They can make things worse not better. It's not that people don't understand your argument, it's that we think it is total bollocks.

Also, it doesn't actually matter whether people being actively deterred from environmentalism by JSO is objectively stupid. You don't get to excuse yourself from the consequences of your actions by arguing that people should've felt differently about it.

There isn’t time though, that really IS the point. We have had decades to act and now it’s not a far off possible threat now, it’s already happening - every week there is something happening somewhere on the globe that’s to do with climate change and very little of it (if any) is good).

In my analogy of the roof about to cave in on top of me, would you tell the shouty structural engineer to go take a week to draw up a five point plan for what he thinks I should do? If you care about me under my about to collapse roof and you see them all shouting at me to get out, you’d join them and start shouting too (I’d hope 😬).

So how's the influencing of public opinion going? Getting the public on your side ?

Can you feel the groundswell of support?

JSO’s aim isn’t to try to influence public opinion. It’s to get the government to stop approving new oil projects.

We will have to agree to disagree there I think. I just simply don’t understand why more people aren’t doing the same kind of thing. We are being completely f’d over by the powers that be and anger a protest really are the only sane response and if I could afford to get arrested I’d be joining them.

80% of people want their government to take stronger climate action. See
https://www.undp.org/press-releases/80-percent-people-globally-want-stronger-climate-action-governments-according-un-development-programme-survey

I think the Make Britain Great Again style government of the last decade really hasn’t helped with this. I think many people would welcome a return to the Britain of the Industrial Revolution.

So rather than standing for parliament to get elected and influence government policy it's more effective to throw powder on a snooker table?

As a PP said, what do you think the Greens have been doing?

"Sometimes needs must" = "I can break any law if I really want to"

Imagine if their next idea was working their way down your street destroying cars that use oil. Those supporting them now would be be calling the police quick enough.

Oh and if it has been proved that humans cause climate change then the ice ages that happened before we evolved must have been caused by dinosaurs with private planes and coal fired power stations.

We do need to clean up our act as we do pollute, but the Just Stop Oil vision of a society with a handful of survivors living on berries is not for me. So I want them to face riot shields and batons and long prison sentences.

And I want oil use to carry on until we find real alternatives. Not the gimmicky nonsense we are being saddled with now.

As I already said above, green politicians have been doing this for decades and it isn’t enough.

And what do you think the environmental and nature NGOs have been doing for the past 40 years? Presenting petitions, presenting research to parliamentary committees, but the pace of change is glacially slow. Too slow.

That’s not the point. With my roof caving in analogy the shouty builders aren’t shouting to draw in passers by to support their aim, they are shouting at me to take action as I’m the only one who can. The flaw in my analogy is that in it, I’m also the one effected most by my roof caving in. I need a new analogy now. Bugger.

But the point is direct action or civil disobedience is not about getting the public on your side.

Absolutely. Way too slow. And getting candidates elected in the face of such a catastrophic emergency is like seeing a fire and sitting down to plan how to put it out. The time for planning how to put the fire out has passed. We just need to put the bloody fire out. No more dithering.

I don’t even know which bit of that nonsense to debunk first. So I don’t think I’ll bother. Anyone with critical thinking skills who learns from more sources than social media and the Daily Fail will know what bunkum and claptrap that is. May be someone else will have the energy.

It's not a big if at all.

Workhouses weren’t so bad you know…😉

Oh well found. Hadn’t seen that but makes sense.