Terrorists' vandalising Stone Henge and trying to force govt policy

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We need the security services to shut the group down when they are carrying out what can be described as terrorist methods to influence govt policy.

Whether it is or isn’t, it’s right.

How many are aware of the march in London for nature & biodiversity which took place this weekend ? Chris Packham was there.

I’ve really only seen coverage of it inside my “green bubble”, barely a mention in the news.

And this for me is why JSO is needed, to boost the issue up the agenda and stir emotions. The gloves have to be off at some point, and even nice people spraying orange cornstarch still isn’t gloves-off enough.

When people say their tactics are putting people off and that they should target oil companies HQs, they don’t seem to compute that will also put people off. A significantly disruptive presence blocking or damaging a refinery or gas terminal will also piss people off because the resulting fuel shortages will once more impact their convenience.

So it took place after the Stonehenge incident, after all this discussion that it inspired, and yet the march still didn't get much coverage or make an impact.

Your point is basically that something is needed. I agree. It doesn't follow that JSO is this something, and it's absolutely possible for people to get so pissed off that they actually make things worse. You can clearly see how that might be the case when it comes to blocking oil refineries, so that does mean you have to also apply the same principle when it comes to direct action that you approve of.

But it achieved NOTHING. Beyond getting in the papers and further clogging up the overstrained justice system.

"Something must be done. This is something, let's do this". Pointless.

It. Will. Not. Help. Prattle about raising awareness all you like, but hard, thankless, un 'heroic', behind the scenes political work gets it done. Not grandstanding. Or marches and St. Chris Packham.

It'll become more extreme until something changes.

Whatever happens, things will change.

It's a question of pain now or pain later.

The trouble with this 'direct action' is it causes a huge amount of disruption/cost/damage/ill feeling without actually achieving anything as JSO are not providing alternatives/answers/doing anything positive to stop our reliance on oil.
Yes, chuck your paint on a snooker table, wear your t shirts with slogans, sit cross legged in the road and get arrested. But 'bringing it to people's attention' isn't solving the problem. Its lazy activism, maximum distuption for minimal effort. We can all shout and stamp our feet but my respect goes to the scientists/engineers actually trying to do something about it.

There's a third option that you haven't mentioned.

Pain now because of this stupid shit, then the same pain later on because it hasn't actually changed anything.

I meant the ecosystem dying

The sneering isn't going to change anything so you might as well save it

As did I.

There's a third option that involves the pain now with Stonehenge stunts, it not changing anything at all and then ecosystem collapse in exactly the same way later on.

I think people will get a huge scare at some point, and public opinion will shift in favour of direct action.

Maybe. Who knows? But it evidently isn't now, which is why vandalising Stonehenge is achieving fuck all.

I think it's best to support action now, as soon as possible. Before things spiral completely out of control.

my respect goes to the scientists/engineers actually trying to do something about it.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2022-09-09/climate-change-scientists-activists-demanding-action/101392282

Mine too.

Yes, so you keep saying.

You are entitled to your beliefs and your faith that vandalising Stonehenge will at some unspecified point change people's behaviour. But it's just plain wrong to present this as a choice between pain now and more pain later. Because there's another, worse, third possibility.

In your opinion

And in reality.

Because if you disagree with me, that means you're saying it's impossible that direct action now could fail to have a positive impact. Or do you actually think it's literally assured?

I hope all those keen on supporting climate scientists on this issue will join them in the direct actions they are now taking, or at least express solidarity in general.

It's not sneering, it's thinking. Direct action isn't going to change anything either, so you save it.

Hardly a difficult or complex concept.

Because of course we haven't already been supporting their actual research and work, and grandstanding is the only option for them and us.

Think again. So called direct action is as indirect as you get. It's just play acting.

Don't hold your breath. Most people know better.

So what IS needed then that hasn’t already been done a gazillion times before over the last 4 decades? What? Please tell us and we will do it!

Me too. I think it’s noble and history (if anyone’s left to tell it) will see their courage like we look back on the Suffragettes, Ghandi etc. I love Radical Tea Towels for highlighting the difference that people can make if the stand up for what they know is right and protest.

Why don't they throw themselves in front of the King's horse like the Suffragettes did? Lets see if they have the courage of their conviction. Throwing powder paint on some stones is easy.

I'm not sneering, I'm concerned about the environment too. I'm just fed up with the 'world is burning' 'don't you care about your children' rhetoric .......but no actual answers on WHAT JSO are doing to improve the situation? It's much easier to chuck paint, glue themselves to tarmac and sit on tube trains than to put some hard graft into standing for Parliament or finding a solution isn't it?