To feel broken by 12 year old DD and to ask for help

[Edenspirits73]

Year 7, 12 year old DD is pushing every boundary and I am struggling to manage it all. It feels relentless and she won’t listen to anything we say. On Friday we had a call from the school to say she had been in pastoral talking about self harming which was like a bolt from the blue- I didn’t handle it very well as I got really upset when she got home as it felt like i don’t know my child anymore.

She started her periods right at the start of year 7 and it’s felt like since then it’s been an out of control battle as she is desperate to push every boundary. She started bunking lessons quite early on, is quite wild in school and doesn’t take it seriously. She wants to do stuff after school every day that feels too grown up (we live in a small city) and it’s all about being out and about. She’s only interested in her phone, wants to be in her room on her own constantly, Won’t do school work, won’t do any activity that she used to do. She talks about wanting to vape, wanting to try weed. She’s 12 FFS.

We grounded her and took her phone after she got into trouble in school for a weekend and that made no difference- she just doesn’t care. She speaks to me like I am an idiot and just doesn’t respect any boundaries. She feels out of control and it’s come from nowhere. She doesn’t care about school at all.

i just don’t know what to do - I feel broken and a failure. My 16 year old DS is just coming to the end of GCSEs and it’s put a strain on him too. He’s been the total
opposite. We are going on a family trip in a few weeks on Europe to celebrate the end of exams and I am dreading it as DD is just so horrible to us all. My DH is at the end of his rope too.

I am trying to get her a counsellor for the
self harm - that has come out of the blue also and she has said we aren’t allowed to talk to her about it. I am scared to do anything - we are just trying to understand what is happening to my lovely child.

She told me yesterday that one of her friends parents doesn’t believe in punishment and that we are awful parents for grounding her but we were just trying to put some boundaries in place. I have been trying to have rules around phone use but she kicks off about that too- my rule is no phones in bedrooms after 9pm- I just want her to have a break and have proper rest.

I feel broken - she knows she is loved- we tell her all the time that we are here for her no matter what etc. Nothing seems to make a difference.

It’s affecting my mental health - I am so worried all the time and I am not enjoying life as I am in a constant state of anxiety about what will happen next. It’s making me ill. I feel like crying all the time. I know it sounds ridiculous but I sometimes feel bullied by DD.

Aibu to ask for some advice - I feel lost. I have emailed a counsellor for DD so hoping that will help.

That sounds so hard. I have no advice I'm afraid, as my children are a bit younger, but just wanted to give you a hand hold and hopefully someone else will be along soon who can help.

What was she like when she was younger OP? Has this all changed since periods started or were there issues before?

It may all calm down as she has entered year 7 and lots going on. My daughter came home saying by she wanted to vape too. She didn’t in the end. I would ask does she do any sport? Apart from keeping them busy they are then not on their phones. Do they have after school clubs too. Hopefully this is a short growing phase as she goes through her first year of secondary. Good luck

Firstly, what was she like previously? Is this a bolt out of the blue or were there signs at primary?

It sounds like a failure to transition to secondary. There could be numerous reasons for this, including finding the lessons tough, making poor social connections or having high anxiety around school.

Make an appointment with school to discuss an action plan. If they think it’s appropriate, they can suggest you make a GP appointment as the first step to any assessment (she might - or might not - be ND).

Lock down her phone so that she just has calls/messaging. No social media, no internet. Charge it downstairs at night.

Sit down with her and explain what you’re doing and why - to help her. Tell her you’re concerned that she’s extremely unhappy, and explain the steps you’re taking to address it.

It’s al started since year 7 and periods. She was a sweet, kind and fun girl - loving and generous. It’s like she has had a personality transplant.

I worry so much as sometimes it also seems like she has the weight of the world on her shoulders - I said to her yesterday that it was mine and her dads job to carry all of this and she didn’t need to.

Thankyou - that’s all really good advice esp the stuff about failing to transition properly to high school - I have spoken to the school about it a few times and they haven’t been great but am hoping now pastoral is involved, they might listen more.

This has been a bolt out of the blue to be honest.

Aww hopefully just a glitch then and as said above it will hopefully pass. I'm sure you'll get your girl back. It's awful having to go through this though. At least she's young enough that you still have an element of control and can help her.

I'd say it might be worth a trip to the GP to check her hormones. I don't know much about it but maybe they can be balanced a bit to help her?

PMDD is worth investigating with the GP, too:

https://www.webmd.com/women/pms/premenstrual-dysphoric-disorder

There’s a high correlation with neurodivergence, but any girl/woman can be affected.

Thanks - interestingly I have just been diagnosed with PMDD triggered by menopause. Consultant said it’s really common in peri women. I have been getting DD to track her cycle using an app since she started her periods- it’s not something she wants to talk about at the moment but it’s useful I think.

Why is everyone so keen to have a label?

Update - edit
So sorry,I did not mean to post this here, but MN rules don't allow chane of context or full deletion of original wording, if you used edit button.

Nobody is keen to have a label, but a sudden change in behaviour is unusual and should be investigated by parents/school/GP.

Or, OP could ignore what is going on with worsening consequence for her DD. She is - rightly - seeking help and looking for suggestions.

My dd was like this and is now a studious 16 year old.
Vaping is a massive trend....most school kids try it....try not to panic.....at least your dd is honest. Mine did it behind my back!

My mum was hysterical about drugs etc which made me want to try it more. My stance has been to educate ( lecturre) dd on lung cancer, liver disease and teen pregnancy etc but not come down too hard. The result is she hardly drinks, smokes and has tried weed but dosn't like it although she will vape at festivals and parties.i dont love it but I was the same.At 16 she is still a virgin....thank god! At one point I thought she would loose it to her bf at 14 but they broke up.

Here's the thing...i used to experiment behind mum's back too but dd is honest with me.
Keep up with the dicipline. I'll never forgot when dd broke a curfew aged 12 so I went to pick her up in front of all her friends. She died of embarassment and never did it again! When she got home the internet was off as a punishment. There waa a tantrum but we stuck with it.
Ffiw they all say that so and so's parents let them do xyand z...it's bollocks.

Yes, I agree
Just edited the above post as I had not meant to post here; multiple tabs open, early morning

This sudden change that everyone is mystified about is puberty and secondary school. Not all our teens are saints...most aren't! Even private school kids.

This sounds really difficult and confusing. You sound like such a sensitive and compassionate parent, and your daughter is lucky to have you. I think that feeling of being bullied by your child is very common in parents of teenagers, and isn't silly at all - they are old enough to know how to be hurtful but not old enough to always moderate their behaviour, and we can't walk away as we would if an adult treated us badly!

I'm a secondary school teacher and I know some parents blame themselves for their child's behaviour and feel that the school is judging them. Just to reassure you, most of the time I think the parents are doing a great job - you have a teenager who is making her own choices and has her own preferences and her behaviour doesn't mean you are doing anything wrong.

I agree with previous posters that it is worth investigating the trigger for this behaviour change. From a secondary school teacher's perspective, I would consider whether she is struggling academically - poor behaviour can be a way of masking this. It is also worth considering neurodiversity as this can emerge in the larger, less predictable secondary school environment. Getting her a counsellor sounds really sensible, although, as I'm sure you are aware, the CAMHS waiting list is pretty farcical - go private if you can. Finally, what are her friends like at secondary school? The drive to fit in is very strong at that age, and she may have fallen in with a group who are all pushing boundaries. The school might be able to help her form different friends by moving form groups etc. Cynically, though, I think this is quite difficult and if my own child fell in with the "wrong crowd" I would consider moving schools before the behaviour is calcified in them.

Best of luck!

It's probably related to puberty and will settle but, just in case, ask her if someone has been hurting her. It could be a reaction to bullying or even abuse. It's not easy to talk about it and children/ teenagers will need someone they love and trust to help them speak.

@Edenspirits73
Please ignore my post about labels, an error
But what a nightmare for you. I was put on the mini-pill to deal with my PMS (not MN abbreviation!) when I first started as they were all over the place, as were my moods.
, it worked a treat

While I agree puberty is likely a factor here. I wouldn’t put all blame on that. The most concerning thing about the move to high school and the most influencing thing on your child from here on is her peers. What’s the school like? What are her friends like? Is she making friends with older kids/slightly wilder kids?
Her behaviour will be hugely influenced by them now. If hee peer group is poor choices on her part then that’s where I would focus my efforts. Also try and find some common space with her if you can. Whether she likes a programme you can watch with her or you have a regular night out together to somewhere she enjoys, can even be a trip to McDonald’s type thing. Just some connection that keep her communicating with you

If you have money now is the time to get her into a time consuming (energy sucking) hobby.
Horse riding is particularly good, most girls jump at the chance to do it and it is physically exhausting for new riders!
If not that, dance, volunteering at an animal shelter etc.
If she doesn't care about punishments such as being grounded I would remove her phone completely every weekend until she gets the message you mean business (that's why they care so little about being grounded, they are still in constant communication with friends, phone would be for school only until behaviour improves).
It might be worth a trip to the GP just for peace of mind that nothing else is going on but I suspect the need to 'fit in' with new friends has more to do with it.

I am so sorry you are going through this, I have experienced similar. Is she being bullied?

I agree with @Calamitousness - I would be looking more at the transition to secondary school than the periods / puberty / hormones issue. Is she struggling with friendships? Or has she got in with a bad crowd? Would you / she consider moving to a different school?

‘Even’ private school kids 🤔

She wouldn’t have a phone at all if she behaved like that. Whether it makes her change or not, it’s a luxury and if you’re not doing your homework then you’re not having your phone. I’d be setting very firm boundaries around the way she speaks to you, absolutely not acceptable. Have school suggested anything to help, counsellor etc? Is it friends she’s hanging around with her influencing her behaviour? Have a no phone rule for her on holiday and see if her behaviour improves being away from outside influences

If she is self harming I would seriously consider whether something has happened that you don't know about.

Self harming is indicative that there is a situation she is struggling to cope with. She may be being bullied at school possibly. She might have been assaulted, physically or sexually.

If she is saying she doesn't want to talk to you about it it's possible that she broke one of your rules (eg. Curfew) and was assaulted but doesn't want to tell you because she thinks you will care more about the breaking of the rule. This kind of response is very common in teens that have been assaulted.

In your position I'd stop with the punishments and consequences - her behaviour is classic "acting out" for where an incident has happened. Focus on trying to build your relationship so she can tell you what is really going on.

If you feel you have to keep going with punishments then it may be an idea to frame them as keeping her safe.

Also agree re a hobby, that would help. It sounds like she’s wanting to go out and hang around, which in cities isn’t a good thing. I wouldn’t be letting her go out at 12 unless to specified activities / friends houses.