To feel broken by 12 year old DD and to ask for help

[Edenspirits73]

Year 7, 12 year old DD is pushing every boundary and I am struggling to manage it all. It feels relentless and she won’t listen to anything we say. On Friday we had a call from the school to say she had been in pastoral talking about self harming which was like a bolt from the blue- I didn’t handle it very well as I got really upset when she got home as it felt like i don’t know my child anymore.

She started her periods right at the start of year 7 and it’s felt like since then it’s been an out of control battle as she is desperate to push every boundary. She started bunking lessons quite early on, is quite wild in school and doesn’t take it seriously. She wants to do stuff after school every day that feels too grown up (we live in a small city) and it’s all about being out and about. She’s only interested in her phone, wants to be in her room on her own constantly, Won’t do school work, won’t do any activity that she used to do. She talks about wanting to vape, wanting to try weed. She’s 12 FFS.

We grounded her and took her phone after she got into trouble in school for a weekend and that made no difference- she just doesn’t care. She speaks to me like I am an idiot and just doesn’t respect any boundaries. She feels out of control and it’s come from nowhere. She doesn’t care about school at all.

i just don’t know what to do - I feel broken and a failure. My 16 year old DS is just coming to the end of GCSEs and it’s put a strain on him too. He’s been the total
opposite. We are going on a family trip in a few weeks on Europe to celebrate the end of exams and I am dreading it as DD is just so horrible to us all. My DH is at the end of his rope too.

I am trying to get her a counsellor for the
self harm - that has come out of the blue also and she has said we aren’t allowed to talk to her about it. I am scared to do anything - we are just trying to understand what is happening to my lovely child.

She told me yesterday that one of her friends parents doesn’t believe in punishment and that we are awful parents for grounding her but we were just trying to put some boundaries in place. I have been trying to have rules around phone use but she kicks off about that too- my rule is no phones in bedrooms after 9pm- I just want her to have a break and have proper rest.

I feel broken - she knows she is loved- we tell her all the time that we are here for her no matter what etc. Nothing seems to make a difference.

It’s affecting my mental health - I am so worried all the time and I am not enjoying life as I am in a constant state of anxiety about what will happen next. It’s making me ill. I feel like crying all the time. I know it sounds ridiculous but I sometimes feel bullied by DD.

Aibu to ask for some advice - I feel lost. I have emailed a counsellor for DD so hoping that will help.

I second horse riding, being around horses calms people down, I recommend the book The Spell of the Horse for some insight into what horses can do in this respect. Good luck. Sounds tough xx

Agree with poster who said that this sudden change is called adolescence. You get a book about parenting teens. Pick your battles and stick to the consequences. If you are lucky it will pass.

Wow you have a lot going as do your DH and both children.

Starting year 7 and your periods at the same time is not much fun.

Does she have friends? Does she have friends from primary school?

It sounds to me that she is all over the place, emotionally and probably quite confused about what her body is doing.

And nature cruelly often times daughter's periods starting with their mother's menopause.

You mentioned your PMDD, has your behaviour changed at all? I'm thinking that when we are tired we often get bit more cranky or are short tempered. Not that I blame you, it sounds awful.

Do you have an older female relative or friend she would be happy to talk about puberty with?

Can you sit her down and agree some ground rules. I know it wounds counter intuitive to have her input into rules but it can help.

I've sometimes used a 'class contract' with older teens (supply teacher) where they tell me the rules, and if I disagree then we discuss what is fair.

So no phone until after she has done homework and showed the work to you.

I had a book recommended to me when I was struggling with my DD at a similar age, it's Untangled by Lisa Damour and it's really quite good.

The other thing I'd recommend is smiling every time you see her. Smile like you are genuinely really pleased that she's there.

My DD is very sensitive to the moods of those around her and I realised that the tension I felt from her behaviour must be showing in my face. So, I made the conscious effort to smile instead and I think it's had a major impact on our relationship.

After a while she started relaxing more with me and wanting to spend some time with me, even if that's just watching reality TV.

Have you read Helping Teens Who Cut? too?

Is her phone set up as a child's account and can you turn off apps remotely? I would charge it in your room overnight as they can be bloody sneaky and go downstairs once you're asleep. My DD worked out pretty quickly how long I read got and how long it would be before I was asleep.

Hi OP - I used to work in safeguarding in a secondary school - it's incredibly common for girls to start having issues with anger (because that directed at themselves through self harm, or outwards to others) at this age, along with the inset if puberty.

I think you are doing the right things in investigating counselling. Reassure her that you love her and that she is a worthwhile amazing person. So many pressures on young women around image and self esteem these days - anything you can do to build her intrinsic self worth is good.

It very likely will get better. I wish you all strength in the mean time.

What are her interests op, so eg if she likes gaming or anything, could you just sit with her, do ye ever get to chat or is she closed to it? Are there eg cousins she gets on with or places she likes going that you could all go to together? Hope it all gets easier x

She hasn’t had a personality transplant but I wonder if something might have happened to her that you’re not aware about. Self harm is extreme and I wouldn’t put it down to just adolescence. I’ve three girls and it can get a bit wild but self harm - no.

Keeping her in is a good idea. I’d go as far as taking her phone off her so she is being bashed with social media algorithms or outside influences. It will also give her brain a rest. Social media causes masses amounts of anxiety and depression in young kids - especially girls

Id take her to the GP to see if her hormones are at a level they should be at.

Councilling is a good idea

I’d really restrict her movements not as a punishment but to pull her back under your wing and keep an eye on her as she is clearly struggling with something. Her talking to you about vaping is pushing for a reaction - why does she want a reaction from you?

It could be that she is struggling with her body chsnges , trauma , bullying, sexual assault, online abuse, severe hormone imbalance.

Keep her in, off her phone and reconnect with her and talk talk talk to her

And is there someone in the family that she can go and stay with for a couple of nights? An Aunty or a DGP? My DD has had a change in rountine recently and I realised she's struggling so she's staying with her DA first s couple of days to destress. I do miss her but it gives us the chance to destress a little too.

You must get her help asap. What you're describing is often the result of trauma. Something may have happened to her that you don't know about.
It's also possible she could have a mental illness. Take her to the doctor and ask for a psychiatric assessment.

I agree with the cycle tracking recommendations. There are some great apps and interesting accounts to follow on social media about impact of nutrition and what women can expect with the different phases of their hormones. If I were young again, that’s definitely one thing I would prioritise, instead of the confusion about ‘why am I a crying, emotional mess? Oh, here’s my period’ every month!!
And just because she’s pushing back, don’t think she’s not listening to what you’re saying. I’ve had a terrible run with my DS due to ASD, but now at 10, he’s coming out with such logical and fair observations. They are listening. You need to keep adding your voice to whatever else is going on in her head.

She sounds exactly like how my daughter was, we had 4 years of hell, tried everything, in the end school was pushing for ADHD diagnosis. I knew in my gut this wasn't the answer. She switched friendship groups and almost overnight everything calmed down, she got a job, stopped going out every night and reverted back to being a pleasant calm individual. Maybe look at who she is hanging around with? Good luck, it's a stressful time.

It sounds as though there might be a group she has fallen in with at school?
Moved my dd from a school where there were multiple kids self harming in Y7 and it was the best thing we could have done. She actually thanked me for that over the weekend and said she hadn't realised at the time how traumatic it was. New group of friends (she was terrified she wouldn't make any new ones) and she's back to her old non-anxious self. We did a couple of sessions with a therapist before she started to help her which was enough and now she knows she can ask for more if something happens.

Give her a brick phone and control her internet use at home.

Secondary teacher here. Girls are hitting puberty younger and younger, which is tough on everyone (including them) but in a lot of cases they are maturing out of it faster too - it's just particularly torrid and difficult to navigate when they are so young really, despite thinking they are ready to be adults.
It also sounds as if she has found the transition to secondary very difficult - you need to ascertain whether it's a case of wrong friends, bullying, even wrong school, or whether something specific has happened that she hasn't told you about. Try to create a need for a long car journey, just you and her. If she's beside you but not having to look AT you, you might get her to talk a bit more. If it's more than just hormones, try hard to get school on side. If they are not responsive, look carefully at whether a different/smaller school might be better, but only if she wants to go. Don't force a move on her that might be perceived as a punishment. But if she wants a chance at a fresh start/nicer friends etc, it might be what she needs.

@Biscuitsneeded that's really interesting about puberty. Do you have any thoughts on why girls are hitting puberty earlier? A GP friend said that it's due to girls weighing more than they used to, which allegedly sets off the whole process sooner. Many of dd's peers started their periods at 9/10. Or is there an issue with hormone imbalances due to processed foods, or lack of exercise? Or are there other reasons entirely? I'm also interested how it changes the experience of early secondary school if most girls have almost gone through their puberty but the end of year 7.

We went through this with our daughter so I know how you're feeling, it's just dreadful. Firstly don't blame yourselves, it's not your fault your daughter has changed. It could be she's now mixing with different friends and reacting to that. My daughter has just been diagnosed with ADHD, she's mid 20s, is this something you could look into. Apparently girls mask it really well but looking back and now knowing more about it, my daughter definitely ticked most of the boxes when we read up about it. On the bright side we have a lovely relationship now and a beautiful granddaughter but those teen years were awful.

I'm no expert, but the consensus is that puberty is usually triggered at a certain weight. Seems to make sense among my own children's friends' experiences. It still doesn't mean that most of Year 7 will have started their periods, but many will have. It's my personal experience that girls can have a pretty torrid time (and be quite difficult) starting in Year 7, but often they have calmed down by year 10. They still have the friendship/boy issues etc but they seem to handle it all a bit better and are certainly more pleasant around adults. Obviously this is all just anecdotal, but I would choose to teach year 10 (girls) over Year 7 every time!

it sounds really miserable OP, wishing you strength, i echo those who have mentioned investigating neurodiversity as a possible underlying trigger, this could be worth investigating. my 12yo DD has just been diagnosed as autistic - we started the process following an absolutely miserable transition into Yr7. girls can mask brilliantly during the school day but typically family pays the price (after school restraint collapse / coke bottle effect).

I know 😂!

This is tough.
She's obviously going through body issues. I'm wondering what she was looking at on the phone before you took it away. There's an unbelievable amount of harmful stuff that young people get drawn into.
Keep a dialogue open with the school, is there a pastoral team member who can monitor her more closely?
Also take her to the GP in case there is a medical problem with the periods/mood impact.

First of all I wanted to say this isn’t your fault. Some teens go through a particularly tough time and it isn’t something you have caused or created. It is something happening to both of you. Sadly hormones can really damage the mental health of teens and it may be that there are some underlying causes like PMDD, ADHD (which is notoriously hormonally inpacted), a trauma you don’t know about. Be curious but be steady.

Secondly, I would use the language of healthy rhythms and it’s good and right as her parents you keep her safe. Constantly talk about what is right, healthy and safe for her. This isn’t about you wrestling control. This is you doing your job as her parents.
Thirdly, she is probably really scared. Counselling sounds like an important idea. But also keep telling her that she is safe, you will keep her safe and that her well-being is of primary importance.

Fourthly, education is important for the long term. But keep your expectations here basic. She must go and turn up. She will suffer various consequences for not doing things but they aren’t your concern. Ultimately she can do badly at school for a year or four even and still get an education when she is out the other side intact.

Finally, get counselling for yourself. This might be the most important one. The more well supported you are the better you will handle this.

Not an answer to your main problem, but seriously, about a week before her period start loading her (safely) with B vitamins - see if it makes a difference.
Marmite. Rescue remedy lozenges - they are boiled sweets, not the whole pack. Obviously keep within reccomendations.

Don't underestimate peer group.
If she has social media apps delete them,
Set up the parent controls on her phone so it automatically powers off at 8:30.
Sit on her bed at bedtime and just chat, chat about anything.
I'd highly recommend the book 'just mom and me' in the America girl series, it has really lovely ideas about how to bond or rebuild the mother daughter relationship. If your daughter is anything like mine she'll eye roll and claim it's lame.....but secretly really enjoy the attention!
She's still very much a child being influenced by peers and social media, and wanting to be 18. My dd has ASD, she genuinely doesn't understand when her manner is rude or language inappropriate, she copies her peers, without having the semantic pragmatic skills for the situation (this may or may not be the case with your dd).
When she says her friends parents don't believe in discipline you come back with 'that's fine, we have different in parenting approaches, bad luck kiddo you have big bad mom /mum / mamma who believes in discipline" make it light hearted but you can follow it up with "yep, you can hate me as much as you like, that's a child's job, but I love you and want the best for you, and one day when you are older you will understand, in the meantime, it's cool to hate me!"
You are allowing her feelings, and more importantly you are giving her a valid reason for her to tell her friends it's all your fault why she can't do X,Y,Z. sometimes kids actually want or need an excuse to get out of doing things with the friends.
Remember she doesn't actually hate you. It would be incredibly rare for a child to hate their parent, however it's very normal for a child to say they hate their parent, or they wish they'd never been born, or any other similar statement. They are learning to navigate a tougher world in secondary school. Just be her constant guidance. Reward good behaviour, discipline poor behaviour. Make sure she has a snack and some quiet time as soon as she gets in from school. Both mine need feeding the minute they walk through the door (they are both older teens) my dd can still be stroppy, but I know if she's stroppy then it means she's had a crappy school day, and I'll plonk myself on her bed at 9.00 and we'll often chat till 10:00. Sometimes we talk about her day, sometimes she doesn't want to talk about what happened, she just wants to know I'm there and we talk about something completely ridiculous like how do we actually know the moon isn't made of cheese!! I'll often start the conversation, but then let her lead, in these conversations I never, ever judge or tick her off, eg she got a detention the other day, instead of telling her off I asked how she felt about it, and we talked about why detentions aren't necessarily a bad thing, and how to avoid them in the future. These are her 'safe' chats where I'm more 'therapist' than parent. I have similar with DS. again he finds it really hard to 'spill the beans' with him its long walks, sometimes we're almost completely silent on our two hour rambles, with DS I never open the conversation but let him lead. He normally starts off telling me survival skill stuff that he's read, which then leads on to surviving the school jungle!
I always thought once mine were at secondary they wouldn't need me as much, but I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion they need me more.
Find the path that works for you and dd, it might be trial and error for a while, but keep going.

I know what you're going through. My eldest daughter is 22. She's lovely, hard working, has a great career and I love spending time with her. When she was 12 to 16 I could have written your OP! I'm not an expert on self harming so can't advise adequately on that. But everything else is exactly what I went through with her.

I got lots of advice from friends and colleagues and the gist of it was that I had to develop the capacity to not take her behaviour personally or as a sign of my own failure. She's behaving like this for the same reason she had tantrums when she was 2 and refused to eat her peas if they'd touched her mash when she was 4. It's just the current state of her under developed brain and raging hormones.

There are some great books on parenting teenagers with advice on managing the behaviour which I found really helpful. But from your post it sound like one of the key things you need is to navigate this phase while protecting your own mental health. And for me the main thing was recognising that for the time being I couldn't change the situation. I could only change my response to it.

Hi OP,

I was this 12 year old. My personality basically changed overnight and I went from perfect, academic good girl to pushing the boundaries at school, getting suspended, self harming etc. At the time I honestly couldn't have told you why or what had happened.

Looking back, I think it was mostly hormones. I have always struggled with the most horrendous PMT and just have a complete personality change before I come on my period and become and unrecognisable demon. As an adult, I've found a pill that works for me (Gedarel) and massively reduces the symptoms of this. It wasn't until I came off the pill to start trying for a baby and spent a whole day sat on the floor crying (and DH was terrified!) that I remembered how bad it used to be. Probably also some undiagnosed ND I think, although now I'm a functional adult I don't think I'll bother getting a diagnosis.

As far as supporting your DD goes, quality time is so important. If you can make some quality time for her each week, a Saturday coffee trip, gym trip together etc even if you get nothing back from her and it feels like she hates you, it will really be making a difference. If there are any other female adults who are good influences on her and whom she respects, aunts etc. or your friends that she knows, try to prioritise them being regular figures in her life. Sometimes teenagers will respect other adults and appreciate their input even when they won't hear it from their parents.

Has she found her "thing" (dance, drama, sport etc)? For me, that was my absolute saving grace as a teenager. I was doing musical theatre three or four times per week and just really found a space where I belonged.

Finally- ignore her comments about her friend who lives with no boundaries. Either it's not true, or that is not a happy functioning household. You say she isn't bothered by the consequences you give her, but the fact that she brings this up indicates she actually is bothered!

Stay in touch with the school and check there are no academic or other issues. Great that she has a counsellor, keep it up.

Should add, Head of Year 9 here who spends a lot of time with troubled teenagers, not just former teenager.