If you consider yourself to be left wing

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Do you believe there should be limits on migration (as a net figure) and benefits (as total % of GDP/cap per household), or do you think there should be no limits at all?

I’m a centrist, but whenever these topics are discussed I notice people claiming to be left wing become a bit uncomfortable, and usually make aspersions on the person talking about it before trying to move the conversation on. It’s like they know deep down we can’t just allow them to spiral but equally they’re at loathe to actually say it out loud because of how it looks.

…nobody?

It's because they haven't thought about it themselves, and they rely on the lies talking points they have been given by the BBC and the Guardian.

It can't stand up to scrutiny, and they know it.

I'm left wing.

I think having a cap on migration is fucking stupid. Britain has traditionally had a very open economy and a lot of different people have migrated here. Historically this is partially because of seeking refuge but also we imported for example lots of Indians and Pakistanis to work in the cotton mills after the war because there was such a labour shortage.

Now we have labour shortages in the care industry and in agriculture. We should be allowing in the people we need to work in those industries, and not allowing in people who want to work in jobs or have skills that can be easily filled in by British people.

We should be more like the US or Australia where it's about whether you do a job that is needed on that country.

I also think a lot of the right wing people tho talk about immigration actually mean race and those people can really fuck off. There have been non white people in Britain since the Romans.

Now we have labour shortages in the care industry and in agriculture. We should be allowing in the people we need to work in those industries, and not allowing in people who want to work in jobs or have skills that can be easily filled in by British people

So you think there should be a cap, to the number of vacancies we need filling?

No she thinks we should pick and choose who we let in and the plebs can just fuck off🙄
Very much like the Tories.

I think the labels we use are far too restrictive.

Every single issue doesn’t fall neatly in one of two boxes.

A lot of people are economically left/right, but socially completely the opposite as far as the terms have been decided.

A lot of traditional conservative economically speaking people, don’t have conservative values when it comes to social issues like gay rights, single parenthood etc.

A lot of economically left/socialists might have more traditional ‘family values.’

Basically, people have more than one thought process regarding lots of issues, and a big problem we have politically is pigeon holing and labelling allegiance to every single issue in a tribalist fashion.

The people who are talking about a cap are talking about a fixed number (I think).

I wouldn't be in favour of a fixed number that doesn't change. I would be in favour of, for example, opening up visas for specifically care workers or agricultural workers or the other option is something like the American system where you advertise the job a couple of times and if no one local who is qualified applies you can get a visa for someone to come in.

So I'd want it to be flexible and respond to the economy basically.

So you think there should be no selection process and anyone who wants to move here should be able to do so?

Also, until recently, because of freedom of movement within the EU, all EU countries effectively had the possibility of unlimited migration in the anyone from any EU country was able to just come here.

In practice most didn't. (Eastern Europeans apart)

Have you ever looked up the total number of immigrants Britain has had over the last, say, 1000 years, and compared it with what we've had in the last 3?

@CoatRack

Yes.

I have.

Asking a left wing wing person to give you answer that requires knowing math or thinking about numbers of any kind is futile. Logic is just a nuisance and a hurdle to their world view rooted in rainbows and unicorn.

For those on the left, their principles are enough to sustain their endless wishlists. Reality doesn’t matter. Stuff just happens, money just grows on trees and a warm, fuzzy feeling is enough to make the world function.

Why are you pretending the options are “a cap” and “entirely unrestricted”?

There are loads of different types restrictions on different things that don’t involve a cap.

You’re clearly here to argue against someone you’ve made up in your head.

No. I'm a Tory☺️

Yeah because picking and choosing who comes into your country is such a weird concept. I mean it’s so alien and illogical.

Honestly, how do people like this get through life?

And you don't see an issue?
Do you think this is sustainable?

Please tell me you have never complained about low wages/house prices/NHS waiting times.

lol.

I am left wing,

I have an economics degree from Cambridge. I also have a second undergraduate degree in maths.

My degree is famous for producing lots of left wing economists including Keynes and Joan Robinson.

A cap on private sector rents would be fairer than a benefits cap, and achieves the same objective.

Ah she won’t like that because that undermines the argument that we have always welcomed migrants.

The grim reality is that unlimited migration and a welfare system, health and education free at the point of use are incompatible. It is inevitable that something has to give, we simply cannot afford to accommodate and support hundreds of thousands of irregular new arrival each year.

Don’t make me laugh. Is your Cambridge degree supposed to protect you from criticism or should we bow down to your allegedly superior mind?

As I get older definitely heading left wing ish. And if you read them in detail lots of Corbyns policy’s made a lot of sense.

which is why even though my vote will be wasted it’ll be either Lib Dem or green that get my vote this time.

basically in pro eu, anti Zionist, pro NHS and the public sector.

We need immigration, it’s going be vital to the long term survival of this country. We have a falling birth rate and aging population.

also over the last 1000 years this country’s been built on immigrants - so your statement is very flawed.

There does need to be some restrictions on those who migrate for economic or social reasons, and having visas etc makes sense.

That's very different to those who migrate due to war or persecution.

The conflation of economic migrants with asylum seekers is very frustrating.

I don't think there should be a benefits cap. Each benefit should be set at a level suitable for its purpose. If people are eligible for multiple benefits, then they should get multiple benefits. Most social welfare payments in the UK are far too low and I hope the next government tackles this in order to reduce the number of children living in poverty.

What would you do then? Are you suggesting that anyone that wants to move here should be able to, regardless?

There would be millions of people coming here from all over the world and where would that leave the people already living here? We can barely house the folk that live here now!

Can you not imagine the the problems 100% open borders would cause? You really can’t imagine why there needs to be restrictions?

Just utter rubbish. Most migrants are net contributors to the UK

the current problem with the boats is a total Tory construct to help their hate narrative.

80% of those processed get the right to remain

and the French offered a simple solution so those who want to come to the Uk could apply enroute. And if they get turned down apply else where.

the Tory / Reform hate of migrants is just wrong.