If you consider yourself to be left wing

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Do you believe there should be limits on migration (as a net figure) and benefits (as total % of GDP/cap per household), or do you think there should be no limits at all?

I’m a centrist, but whenever these topics are discussed I notice people claiming to be left wing become a bit uncomfortable, and usually make aspersions on the person talking about it before trying to move the conversation on. It’s like they know deep down we can’t just allow them to spiral but equally they’re at loathe to actually say it out loud because of how it looks.

I will acknowledge that at one level it is flippant.

However, I believe that while many people speak of wanting an end to global inequality, only saints or martyrs would actually want that if it meant their own family living standard had to decline in order to match the global median.

I'm left wing and I think it's fine to say there a are negative aspects to high immigration and too high a benefits bill. I think the left wing has the right ideas but some of the people can be dicks at times.

Maybe learn a bit of history. It was certainly built in the lives of millions.

the Population in 1861 was 23 million - so even your basic facts are wrong.

but how did it count citizens across the empire and the colonies and how many slaves

the whole wealth of Britain was built on its empire and those people forced to live with in it.

and regardless going forward we’re going to need a lot of people to sustain the current aging population or just get rid of retirement. We’ve got about 25 years. To get breading.

theres also massive positive impacts of immigration.

I live in a small, very poor town in the North East.

Over the last two years or so, the demographic has completely changed.

I have nothing against people coming here but some consideration has to be given to the community and culture of a place.

I'm a fan of the Guardian but I despise what labour plans to do, the undeclared plans - I guess that makes me reasonable!!

Huh?

Those living standards were built on the back of colonialism, exploitation of people and nature, and of course the extraction of fossil fuels and they are in the grand scheme of things a recent phenomenon. I think that these living standards are literally unsustainable in the face of climate change and / or the end of fossil fuels. And because of that, this “golden age” currently enjoyed by a small percentage of humans on earth will come to an end. It feels inevitable to me.

I’d prefer that we plan for that now, and transition systematically and equitably to a fairer way of living on earth without creating yet more boundaries around resources or resinstating old ones.

We have to be extremely careful with immigration.

It is nothing to do with race.

-We cannot get GP appointments.
-We wait more than a year to see specialists.
-Our roads are a traffic jam.
-We have housing shortages - social housing, private rental, even homes to buy - we're short of it all.

Having more people when we can't deal with our existing population doesn't seem sensible.

On the other hand, I'm well aware immigration is crucial, particularly for the NHS. Also for universities who are balancing their books with overseas fees.

If I was a skilled prospective immigrant, I would not want to come to the UK.

Overall I think we're fucked.

I come from a small coastal (not picturesque) town.
Same.
The metropolitan luxury belief classes have no idea what life is like for people outside their own echo chamber.

This is how I feel.

Thank you!

What standard of living do you think you would have under this model?

I agree. If you live in a privately owned house in a lower middle class area or above, and don’t work in an occupation which means a lot of exposure to ‘deprivation’ - you have 0 clue. Literally 0

A very poor town where some people presumably leave to go to wealthier cities where they have more opportunities? A very poor town where other people likely live because it's the one place they can afford a house?

We have a lot of economic migration in the UK. I don't see why Dave who can't afford a decent quality of life in London but can in your town, is any more deserving than the Dave who is from India, who is highly skilled and wants a better quality of living for his family.

Yes I think one of the big problems with migration is culture and community.

I think Britain actually in many ways finds this trickier than most other developed countries.

Because of the empire a lot of people hold a British passport "are British" who have never been to Britain and are only familiar with the culture and community of (what was) a British colony.

Hence the 5.4 million Hong kongers who hold a BNO passport, the Ugandan Asians (also British passport holders but had mostly never been to Britain), lots of people in Caribbean and African countries.

I grew up in Lancashire where in the 1940s and 50s many Indians came to work in the cotton mills. The cotton industry declined and vanished (it was in pretty terminal decline by that point to be honest) but the people stayed.

So I went to a school that was half Asian. I grew up with clearly British born boys and girls (mostly third generation by then) who wore kurta pyjamas and shalwar Khameez and the girls put on hijab as they got older.

To me that's normal.

Then I moved down south (to Cambridge for uni) and it was just so white. And traditionally British... but not what I thought of as British.

If I'd grown up somewhere like Cambridge, I would see the Asian community as "not British" because to me it wouldn't be.

Colonialism and slavery are in the past and utterly irrelevant today. They are often used as a means to shut conversation down though.
I see no problem with allowing immigration if the immigrant has skills we need, such as medical and care at the moment.
The complete lack of acceptance that many extra people put a strain on existing housing and services is ridiculously illogical though.

There should be a cap. We can’t house and provide adequate health care to everyone here already.

Excuse me, my 29m includes Ireland. Looks like I should have said "0.36% did not build this country" instead.

This doesn't diminish my point in the slightest, and you know that.

I agree with @MaryMaryVeryContrary . I'm very much a champagne socialist with luxury beliefs. I find it very difficult to reconcile my principles with reality. However, I don't believe that the issues in the UK are down to immigration. They are just a convenient scapegoat.

We have a huge gap between the poorest and richest, driven by austerity. Changing things could start with the abolition of the child benefit cap, lifting 800,0000 out of poverty, rather than extending it to those with an income of £120K.

The NHS needs reform, as do social housing policies. Sir Keir is being handed a poisoned chalice indeed.

I am left wing. I believe in good public services, equal opportunities for all children which requires a good benefits system and I believe disabled people should have a good quality of life just as they would if they could work.
However, I am realistic in that there isn't an infinite amount of money. I do believe benefits need to be capped and that the system needs to be fair so that people working in low paid jobs, who usually work very hard such as carers and retail staff, also have a good qulaity of living and aren't worse off than people out of work.
I do think immigration needs to be capped. There is a huge shortage of housing in my area, there are waiting lists for emergency housing. People are sleeping on the streets and families are placed in hotels with no kitchen facilities. There isn't the infrastructure in my area for uncontrolled immigration.
I do think with better management of public services and higher taxes for the very wealthy services and infrastructure could improve but not to the point where we could have uncontrolled immigration and unlimited spending on benefits.

Look at Poland. Much better quality of life now than the UK. They don’t accept migrants as they ‘don’t have the ‘infrastructure’
When I visited with my son who has grown up in London, he was struck by the fact that EVERYONE we saw everywhere was white. So the EU nirvana that the lefties spout, really is not welcoming to migrants.

Both colonialism and slavery very much exist today.

Christ almighty, this is spoken like a true, thoughtless metropolitan Guardianista type.

People have roots here so they can’t just leave for better opportunities. Their families are here. They don’t have the money to leave in the first place!

Someone from London is not going to have a wildly different culture. Someone from Africa does. Someone from London may have more wealth than someone from Africa. Someone from Africa may move their family and extended family here.

Someone from London has paid into the tax system in this country.

I walked down the Main Street yesterday evening and there were cars parked up with Reggae music blasting out. I felt like a stranger in the town I grew up in.

What standard of living do we currently have? Not a great one. It's been declining for years under a right wing government and the poor are getting poorer.

I live in a fairly deprived area in a council flat. The number of alcoholics and drug addicts is rising and they just sit around all day in the town centre. I walked past a woman literally lying on the floor outside with a bottle of wine not long ago. Nobody cares about those people. What good has austerity done?

Being left wing, economically, makes sense. If you give people adequate benefits you enable them to make choices regarding their lifestyle etc. This, in turn, places less of a burden on the NHS. People can eat better, take exercise etc. if you give children, particularly those in deprived areas, a decent education they grow into people that can enter the workforce. After 14 years of “right wing” control there are now teenagers leaving education without the skills for ANY work. If you support young families (through the sure start scheme) they improve their parenting skills and are less of a burden on the tax payer in the coming years. If you it in early intervention to mental health care you prevent a very expensive crisis later down the line. A stitch in time, saves nine!

my sons tutor has a PhD in maths and is very left wing. Whilst I realise this is merely anecdotal evidence, left wing people do tend to have had the benefit of, at the very least, a university education and frequently post grad study.

Left wing people aren’t stupid, we’re often highly educated and when you patronise us you make yourself look thick! You also show a lack of understanding of poverty and limited critical thinking skills

and to answer the OPs question, no I don’t think that there should be a benefit cap. I think immigration is more complex but I don’t think I’m comfortable with a cap on immigration. People coming across on boats are REFUGEES, not illegal immigrants.

I think people should be paid a fair wage for a days work and that nobody in full time work should need to have their income topped up with benefits. Escaping poverty is extremely difficult. Leading a “normal” life after growing up in dysfunction and depriving is almost impossible. But it needs to be made easier. It’s CHEAPER to make it easier than to throw money at ongoing generations because we haven’t given them the support to do better.