Really dislike 16-year-old niece: don't want to have her to stay

[valsays]

My sister was divorced several years ago and is sole parent to my niece who's almost 16. Her ex lives abroad and sees his DD rarely. I used to get on really well with DN and spent quite a lot of time with her until she reached the age of around 13, at which point she started to become obnoxious. I ignored the snide remarks and lack of consideration or gratitude for as long as I could, but last year things reached a head.

She and a friend of hers came to stay with me for 4 nights, as they have a couple of times a year for some years. I live in London and when she stays I do things with them that they wouldn't be able to do where they live. Last year we went down the Thames to Hampton Court on a boat, we shopped at Camden Market and Spitalfields and Hoxton, we went to Tate Modern and the Globe theatre, we saw a couple of shows and a couple of films. I pay for everything, obviously. DN's friend was lovely. DN was a complete nightmare. Didn't want to go out and do anything but was angling to go clubbing and angry with me for saying no. She was 14! Didn't want to go anywhere I suggested, couldn't suggest anything she'd like to do. One day we had a quiet day locally, because she was so adamant about not going out, and she complained we didn't do anything. I tried talking to her to find out what was going on, but she told me to eff off and then had a furious rant at me. She was really trying to be hurtful. I soaked it up and tried to comfort her friend, who found the situation difficult, but it really spoiled the last couple of days of their visit and she had another major outburst in the car when I took them home.

Last Christmas I bought her something that I'm sure she'd said she wanted. Something that cost £300. I was there when she opened it, with my DM and DS and other family members around. DN opened her present, pulled a face and then threw it at me and said 'You're as shit at buying presents as everything else' and walked out and slammed the door on us. My DM was shocked. My DS went after DN and told her off and there was a big row that ruined the day. DN hasn't spoken to me or contacted me since then. I've messaged her occasionally and she's just ignored me.

My DS knows what DN is like, but is still anticipating that this August I'll have her and the friend to stay as usual. As the time approaches I feel less and less like doing it. Their visits cost me over £1k, which I don't begrudge. But I'm not going to spend that sort of money and also soak up the abuse.

I've contacted my DS to say I'm not sure I want to continue the tradition. My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens. She's actually accused me of being unreasonable for not carrying on as usual. AIBU?

I’m sorry that your DS has her cancer diagnosis but that is absolutely no excuse for the behaviour of your DN. Personally I wouldn’t even consider her coming to stay or taking her anywhere until she has the grace to apologise and even then I would think really hard. You can’t reward bad behaviour, no matter what the underlying cause might be - there have to be consequences, if there aren’t you are giving her the message that it’s ok to be rude, badly behaved, be a brat and she can treat everyone like a doormat.

Wow absolute no way I’d be having the little madam, and can’t believe your sister expects you to. She faces it daily, well it’s a monster she’s created. I’ve got 2 teens and they wouldn’t dare speak to an adult like that

No way should you be hosting this horrible little madam ever again and I sincerely hope you took the 300 quid present back and got a refund. Or gave it someone who would appreciate it

Teens can be dicks (just had a row with my 15yo pillock who had a strop cos I got the wrong blind for his room I've had a nightmare redecorating) but this seems more than that. More like she's subconsciously punishing you. Presumably she knows about your sister's cancer? Being Stage 1 doesn't really mean anything to her, it's just really scary - it's cancer, it's scary, we are told all the time about how scary it is. If my mum was diagnosed with stage 1 cancer I'd be scared & unsettled & I'm 45.

That said! How you kept your shit together when she threw your present at you is beyond me, that was incredibly nasty but again sounds like it might be a cry for help aimed very specifically at you.

Your idea of going somewhere else instead of the time at yours might be a good idea. Maybe a camping/walking trip somewhere stunning & peaceful? And tell her why - she doesn't seem OK & this is a wellbeing holiday vs the normal hectic frivolous one

Absolutely not.
Your DN needs to grow up and accept there are consequences for her actions.
I wonder if your sister has nowhere else to send her if she behaves like that!

I have a 14 and a 16 year old - this is not normal behaviour.
By letting her stay again after such awful behaviour, you are not helping her in the long term.
Your dn will need to learn there are red lines /boundaries in how far to go, and the kindest thing in the long run, is to show her - this is not acceptable.

In light of your update, why don't you ask your Sister to stay instead? After her diagnosis, she can get a break that way.

Sounds like your sis needs to discipline her child, probably too late though. Sounds like a spoilt brat who gets away with murder. I would tell her she's not coming anymore end of. She needs to learn respect and consequences.

It’s not a part of dealing with teenagers as clearly her friend knew how to behave properly. I wouldn’t be putting up with this. Her access to cool auntie-who-lives-in-London privileges would be revoked until further notice.

My immediate reaction was an absolute no to having her. But then you mentioned your DS cancer diagnosis and I’m sure she wants a break… I don’t think you are obliged to take DN, but if you do decide do, I wouldn’t also have her friend to stay. I also wouldn’t be planning lots of expensive treats and meals out for her. She can help out at home and you can go to the markets, and order a takeaway or make dinners.

There’s no reasoning to be had. The only thing that might have some impact is if you tell your niece yourself that’s she’s not welcome this summer and why i.e. she’s rude and ungrateful.

An alternative location, that she doesn’t know, sounds like a good idea.

I’d honestly be terrified that a highly strung and disrespectful teenager may just disappear into London.

I had son's friend stay when he was a teen- He and son were having a burping competition to be annoying.

I said ''One more burp, Alex goes home''....there was silence for about two minutes, then a monstrous burp -

Alex did indeed go home.

He is a lovely young man now, as is son, but pushed boundaries do need following through..

Having read your updates, I would soften my earlier response.
I suspect niece is having a hard time.
Maybe offer a shorter stray - on the basis that last year was maybe an indicator that you need to change what you do during her visit and ask for ideas what she would like to do? Make it 2 nights instead of 4 perhaps? I wouldn't be surprised if DN declines to come.
I think showing some kindness, maturity and forgiveness on your part would go a long way. Especially to your DS even if the visit doesn't happen.

The voting says it all.

I agree. If your sister needs a break take DN but make it very clear that she is giving her mum a break from her because she is ill. No treats, no friends round, no gifts, no £1000 worth of excursions.

I am surprised that your sister asked, let alone assumed, that this trip would be happening again. If my child had behaved like that towards a relative I would not even approach them about a favour. The only way this should happen again is by you offering some version of the trip.
It sounds like they both take you for granted.
In talking to your niece about this, I think you should make it much less about her (why are you angry? Etc etc) and much more about you. This is what I will and will not tolerate, this is the impact of your behaviour on me.

@valsays I think it would be better to say no this time. But if you don’t feel you can, you should at least say no initially then say “not sure I want a repeat of last year or having a gift thrown at me” and then say “if I do agree, the merest hint of a repeat and I’m taking you home” and mean it.

But honestly, because your sister is being arsey, I wouldn’t be entertaining it - it’s a privilege not a right.

My nieces dad left them and my DSIL bore the brunt of nieces anger about it through her teen years.

dn knew better than to even start it with me as there would be zero tolerance. She knew I was always there as a non judgemental confidential sounding board or if she ever needed any help, but if she acted up she would be dropped back home immediately.

I would tell your ds if your dn wants to come you want her to phone and ask you so you can hear her explain her past behaviour and talk about expectations before agreeing . And this time she comes alone so she doesn’t have a friend to act up in front of. Until she can attend alone and be civil throughout there will be no friends allowed.

This could be a good idea if you still want to help your sister out.

You could go to your sister's house and babysit. DN can hide in her room and hopefully your paths will not cross too much. Your sister can have a relaxing few days at your house in London.

She's sounds nasty and rude, you sound like a great Aunt. Any problems she may be going through are certainly not your fault, treat yourself with the money you would have spent on her.

Exactly and name sure DSis and DN know why

She sounds utterly foul. You could put it down to terrible teens (raging hormones and all that), but I suspect she's just a nasty, selfish little brat and will still be a nasty, selfish little brat when she's 25. I know teens can be horrible, but that's pretty bad. It's also unusual to be so vile to an aunt. Your parents, maybe, but not an aunt. Even the worst teens are usually OK around grandparents and extended family. They save their vileness for mum and dad!

Frankly, it sounds like she's developing some kind of personality disorder – maybe an anti-social or narcissistic PD, something like that. You seem like a nice, thoughtful person OP, and you write that both your sister and mother object to her behaviour. So I'd guess she's being fairly well brought up. Maybe she takes after her father, or someone on her father's side.

Sorry, but your Dsis has to deal with it because she is her mother - and clearly has not stepped in as a parent to correct this behaviour. You are under no obligation to extend the invitation. I’d refuse to have her stay as well. DSis is going to have to explain to DN that if you shit all over someone’s generosity, hospitality and feelings, then you end up staying home alone.

My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens. She's actually accused me of being unreasonable for not carrying on as usual. AIBU?

Of course you are not unreasonable in not wanting to spend your time and £1000 of money on such a rude ungrateful person. Please stand up for yourself. It’s really not your problem!

I’d spend the money on a holiday instead. For me!