Really dislike 16-year-old niece: don't want to have her to stay

[valsays]

My sister was divorced several years ago and is sole parent to my niece who's almost 16. Her ex lives abroad and sees his DD rarely. I used to get on really well with DN and spent quite a lot of time with her until she reached the age of around 13, at which point she started to become obnoxious. I ignored the snide remarks and lack of consideration or gratitude for as long as I could, but last year things reached a head.

She and a friend of hers came to stay with me for 4 nights, as they have a couple of times a year for some years. I live in London and when she stays I do things with them that they wouldn't be able to do where they live. Last year we went down the Thames to Hampton Court on a boat, we shopped at Camden Market and Spitalfields and Hoxton, we went to Tate Modern and the Globe theatre, we saw a couple of shows and a couple of films. I pay for everything, obviously. DN's friend was lovely. DN was a complete nightmare. Didn't want to go out and do anything but was angling to go clubbing and angry with me for saying no. She was 14! Didn't want to go anywhere I suggested, couldn't suggest anything she'd like to do. One day we had a quiet day locally, because she was so adamant about not going out, and she complained we didn't do anything. I tried talking to her to find out what was going on, but she told me to eff off and then had a furious rant at me. She was really trying to be hurtful. I soaked it up and tried to comfort her friend, who found the situation difficult, but it really spoiled the last couple of days of their visit and she had another major outburst in the car when I took them home.

Last Christmas I bought her something that I'm sure she'd said she wanted. Something that cost £300. I was there when she opened it, with my DM and DS and other family members around. DN opened her present, pulled a face and then threw it at me and said 'You're as shit at buying presents as everything else' and walked out and slammed the door on us. My DM was shocked. My DS went after DN and told her off and there was a big row that ruined the day. DN hasn't spoken to me or contacted me since then. I've messaged her occasionally and she's just ignored me.

My DS knows what DN is like, but is still anticipating that this August I'll have her and the friend to stay as usual. As the time approaches I feel less and less like doing it. Their visits cost me over £1k, which I don't begrudge. But I'm not going to spend that sort of money and also soak up the abuse.

I've contacted my DS to say I'm not sure I want to continue the tradition. My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens. She's actually accused me of being unreasonable for not carrying on as usual. AIBU?

Op clearly wants to help her DN, comment after comment saying don't host the "spoiled brat" isn't really constructive.

The 'spoiled brat' comments were initially useful. I'd been thinking of her as a spoiled brat but the crassness of so many comments and the accusations that DS was a crap parent made me think no, DN isn't a spoiled brat and my DS is actually a good parent at the end of her tether. I'm now just scrolling on past the stupid kneejerk responses to my first post.

Wow. I was a teen girl never ever did I behave like that. Has your sister spoilt her? I don’t think I’ve had a £300 present 🙄😳 I’m 39. I certainly would never throw it at the giver. Horrible behavior.

My dd is the same age as your DN - she would NEVER speak to a member of her family like that EVER. She is polite, gracious and thoughtful. Your DN sounds like an entitled, bad tempered, bad mannered little shit who is not deserving of your time or money. Her age is no excuse, who the hell does she think she is? I'd go ballistic if I was spoken to like that, especially after spending loads of time and money on lovely treats. Fuck that.

Sorry the thread has descended into this - given what you say about DSis, I think the suggestion to spend time with her instead sounds perfect. Could DM stay at DSis’s house so DN can do as she wants at home and give you special time to support your sister?

My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens

So fucking what? That's not your problem. Your sister chose to have a child and it's her job to parent her and deal with her vile, spoilt, rude and generally awful behaviour, not yours.

Also, most teens absolutely do not behave as badly as your niece. Teens can certainly be stroppy and ungrateful and moody, yes. But 99% of teenagers would absolutely not treat a relative in the way that your niece treats you.

You've been pussyfooting around your niece's shitty behaviour for the last three years. Why did you buy her a £300 gift after the way she behaved towards you? Why are you still messaging her after she was such a total cunt towards you at Christmas? It sounds like you, your mother and your sister have never actually put any consequences in place for your niece's behaviour. You're all being bullied by a spoilt fucking child and it needs to stop.

Absolutely do not have your niece to come and stay with you and tell your sister some serious home truths about how her child's behaviour is very much her problem as the parent, not yours as the aunt, and that you won't be shat on by the pair of them any more.

I don't think that you should hold one bad visit against her, but also I don't think that you should have her to stay if she doesn't want to come.

I suspect that she sees that week as childcare (which she is much too old for) because your sister is using it as respite. Whereas you and her friend both see it as a lovely treat because you're spending lots of money and doing nice activities with them.

I think that I would probably take the conversation directly to her. Something like "Just checking in to see whether there is anything which you would like to do in London this year? If so would you like to come and visit me?"

That puts the ball firmly in her court.........

DN isn't a spoiled brat

How would you describe a 16-year-old who throws a £300 gift back at her aunt and tells her she's shit at everything, then? How is that NOT being a spoilt brat?

Your original post is quite shocking, I think that's why you've had so many brat comments

What was it that you bought her? Such an extreme reaction it feels like there is definitely something else going on

I personally think it is worth talking to your niece for what it's worth, I probably would have spoken to her long before now.

It's bloody hard being a teenager but this kind of behaviour does seem extreme to me, even with what's happened with her dad

This. Your sister allows this behavior your sister can keep her.

Her parents need to come down hard on that kind of behaviour. It's partly not her fault - hormones can make teens quite toxic. I remember being nasty and self-centred at thirteen, constantly irritable and anxious. But my parents kept the behaviour in check. I would never have got away with how your niece behaves.

This!

Excellent idea. By all means cook or takeaway her favourite food but otherwise bare minimum

If there is any chance of talking I'd reiterate that you're always there for her but you're not her punching bag and if she has a problem you'll listen.

Have just read OP’s posts. It is clear your DN is lashing out at you because you are safe, you sort of have her shit father’s role, and she is taking her anger at him out on you.

Still not acceptable.
Possibly already suggested but I’d have just my niece, no friend. If she mouths off you can VERY firmly tell her you will NOT accept being spoken to like that, without having to stress about the friend.
Maybe visit them a few days earlier in the summer if you can, to talk to her and lay down some ground rules.

Good luck!

Please don’t conflate spending time with your niece to help out your sister as a reward for your niece - it’s a reward for your sister; to give her a break.

Personally, I’d message/phone your niece and explain that you want it to be just the two of you and are looking for suggestions of things she’d like to do together. If you get nothing back, put forward your suggestions. If you’re still met with a blank wall, make plans around your suggestions but, where possible, not things that need booking in advance. It would allow flexibility to be spontaneous/tweak accordingly.

It’s bloody hard to keep positive especially when faced with rudeness!

Sorry the thread has descended into this

Indeed.

I was a horrible teen and looking back it was anger and frustration about my family situation. I was horrible, really horrible. But I grew out of it. Can you write her a letter, a gentle and kind one. Maybe she will write back, maybe she won't but leave the door open for when she matures out of this stage and wants to come back into the fold. It will happen, likely this phase will last a year or two more but she sounds like she has issues and for some reason you are bearing the brunt of it.

And is she terrified of your sister's diagnosis?

She's lost one parent...

Absolutely not. Maybe when she has turned 18 and become a human being again, which many sulky rude teens do, but while she is behaving like a pita then she can stay at home and be bored.

Also, just to add, I'm sorry to hear about your DS cancer diagnosis but it's still no excuse for your DN to behave that way. My DH has stage 4 cancer and has been told he is going to die, probably in his 40s - our DD hasn't gone around taking it out on everyone else, despite facing the prospect of losing her dad at a very young age.

My DS certainly tried to get DN to apologise at Christmas but what on earth is a parent supposed to do when a 16-year-old digs in their heels?

What are they supposed to do? Tell them they won’t be getting a £1000 trip to London with their friend again because they were so rude for starters. I wouldn’t dream of imposing a child of mine that behaved like that on my sibling for any length of time. Your sister needs to understand that she might choose to put up with this, but nobody else will.

But she's still got you...

(I'm sorry about your DH )

I know teens go through phases of being obnoxious and it's bad enough as a parent when they are so rude and ungracious, but it kind of goes with the territory of being a parent to have to bear the brunt of it. In general they tend to save the worst of their behaviour for mum and dad and can usually manage to be quite pleasant towards everyone else.

In this case, what your niece said was appalling and completely unacceptable. No excuses whatsoever, just plain bad manners. She doesn't deserve you.

It doesn't sound as if she's going to be fussed about visiting this year anyway, but if I were you I'd just tell your sister you are not doing it this year, or for the foreseeable future. When your niece has grown up a bit and realised how badly she's behaved, you are willing to accept her heartfelt apology and renew the once close relationship. Until then, you'll be making no further effort with her, including birthdays and Christmases. Leave the ball in her court. She'll realise in the next couple of years or so that she's been an immature little madam and she'll probably be embarrassed by it.

If not, then you've had a lucky escape. It's saved you a few more years of forking out hundreds of pounds a year on her.

My daughter was abandoned by her father and his complete family. He got violent with her and they all chose his side. She has ptsd and years of counseling. It would NEVER occur to her to behave this way.

Firstly, you are absolutely not being unreasonable. I would certainly refuse to have her unless she is willing to apologise (genuinely) for previous behaviour.

I haven’t read all replies so apologies if this has been mentioned but when was your sister’s cancer diagnosis? I’m guess a lot of this behaviour was before the diagnosis but wondering if the Christmas issue was after. Reason I’m asking is that fear of losing her only remaining parent (as such) could be contributing to the problem. You/rest of the adult family know that stage one means all should be fine but cancer is a scary word especially for someone that’s already been abandoned by one parent. I had stage 2 cancer when my son was one and I often think/worry about how he would cope if it comes back when he’s older especially as his father and I have split and his father lives in another country, albeit not another continent and sees DS very regularly.

just a thought x

YANBU. DN sounds vile even for a teenager. She needs to learn that actions have consequences. She should get no more visits, treats or presents from you until she learns to behave properly.