Really dislike 16-year-old niece: don't want to have her to stay

[valsays]

My sister was divorced several years ago and is sole parent to my niece who's almost 16. Her ex lives abroad and sees his DD rarely. I used to get on really well with DN and spent quite a lot of time with her until she reached the age of around 13, at which point she started to become obnoxious. I ignored the snide remarks and lack of consideration or gratitude for as long as I could, but last year things reached a head.

She and a friend of hers came to stay with me for 4 nights, as they have a couple of times a year for some years. I live in London and when she stays I do things with them that they wouldn't be able to do where they live. Last year we went down the Thames to Hampton Court on a boat, we shopped at Camden Market and Spitalfields and Hoxton, we went to Tate Modern and the Globe theatre, we saw a couple of shows and a couple of films. I pay for everything, obviously. DN's friend was lovely. DN was a complete nightmare. Didn't want to go out and do anything but was angling to go clubbing and angry with me for saying no. She was 14! Didn't want to go anywhere I suggested, couldn't suggest anything she'd like to do. One day we had a quiet day locally, because she was so adamant about not going out, and she complained we didn't do anything. I tried talking to her to find out what was going on, but she told me to eff off and then had a furious rant at me. She was really trying to be hurtful. I soaked it up and tried to comfort her friend, who found the situation difficult, but it really spoiled the last couple of days of their visit and she had another major outburst in the car when I took them home.

Last Christmas I bought her something that I'm sure she'd said she wanted. Something that cost £300. I was there when she opened it, with my DM and DS and other family members around. DN opened her present, pulled a face and then threw it at me and said 'You're as shit at buying presents as everything else' and walked out and slammed the door on us. My DM was shocked. My DS went after DN and told her off and there was a big row that ruined the day. DN hasn't spoken to me or contacted me since then. I've messaged her occasionally and she's just ignored me.

My DS knows what DN is like, but is still anticipating that this August I'll have her and the friend to stay as usual. As the time approaches I feel less and less like doing it. Their visits cost me over £1k, which I don't begrudge. But I'm not going to spend that sort of money and also soak up the abuse.

I've contacted my DS to say I'm not sure I want to continue the tradition. My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens. She's actually accused me of being unreasonable for not carrying on as usual. AIBU?

She is condoning it. Because she’s expecting you to put yourself out and spend money on a spoilt little madam. The natural consequence to her behaviour is she doesn’t get a trip. Until she reaches out and apologies forget it.

Ps. Your Neice is behaving as she is towards you because she's jealous and wants the lifestyle you have (and the resources that come with it) for herself all the time and from her mum. The snippets she gets from you probably makes her feel left out in life the rest of the time.

I really despair of people rewarding this kind of behaviour. She's now more than likely getting a trip to Edinburgh festival and she hasn't even apologised for the atrocious treatment of OP.

DN hasn't spoken to me or contacted me since then. I've messaged her occasionally and she's just ignored me

This is reminding me of the thread last week where a 14yo punched his DGM in the stomach and refused to apologise and she didn't want to buy him a present for his upcoming birthday. People were telling the grandmother to apologise to him and buy him a birthday present.

Saw one of your other posts saying Edinburgh will be a treat rather than punishment. I know she’s been horrible to you, but doing something completely different - and you have thought she may enjoy - may make her realise that you do care about her and want to continue a relationship. I don’t understand wanting to punish her. It will ruin any chance of a relationship.
Could you find the line up for the fringe and plan it with her - olive branch of - look I want to take you to Edinburgh this year, before I set plans in stone and book tickets, do any of these acts take your fancy or would you rather do xyz in London? (Can I recommend Aaron Simmonds as a comedian to go see - he’s hilarious, and a friend!)

You should have put all the relevant details in your first post and then you might not have had such a hard time, OP.

She def has teenage issues but at 16 years of age I wouldn’t be inviting her as she’s even more likely to want to go clubbing and will ignore you saying no!

Of course actions have consequences and no dn hasn't behaved in an acceptable way but let's be honest - that's not normal behaviour. She's a lot of instability going on right now and I don't think cutting her off is the way to go about this. You're clearly a person that she cares about and trusts so if it were me, I would host her but just her on her own and for a shorter period of time. I'd try and raise it with her then and just say that you want to clear the air with her, that you love her and you were really surprised by her reaction at Christmas and that it'd important to you that she knows that if she's upset or angry or overwhelmed it's ok for her to talk to you about it.

Wiping your hands of a kid who's going on a bad path is never a good idea. Especially with your dsis health worries now thrown in the mix. Her behavior makes me think there's something emotionally under lying as well and you're not going to find out what that is unless you keep continuing to push through with her.

I highly suspect she wont want to come to yours this summer after both meetings last year were so negative, the Scotland idea she will be even less into that idea you have a teenager who refuses to do anything she doesnt want to do.
I have 3 DDs my oldest is 16 and would never speak to anyone like the way your DN has or behave in such a way and she has a trauma from having to save her friends life when she found her trying to kill herself hanging from a tree when they were 13 years old traumas and issues are no excuse for not appoligising after such awful behaviour and all this time has past and still no apology,
My other two DDs are much younger I would love for my eldest DD to do everything we do as a family and come enjoy herself but she quite often asks not to come sometimes she stays at home sometimes has plans with friends and been this way for a couple of years I respect her decisions I don't make her do everything we do that she doesn't want to do.
I'd start by involving DN in any plans before making any if you really still want to have her this summer.

It's not just part of dealing with teens. And it's her mum's job to find out why she is so unhappy. It's not your responsibility to deal with it, tbh.

Absolutely this!

Absolutely not ..she's behaving in a manner I would not tolerate for a second. Stop enabling her and being a doormat. Firm no.

Could your DN be Autistic? Meltdowns and struggling leaving the house/safespace are usual for autistic girls and its even harder than for the average teen to explain their feelings.

Say no and don't feel bad about it. The little wretch needs to learn that unpleasant actions have unpleasant consequences.

I have a 13 and 16 dd and they would never in a million years act like this. Sounds like your ds needs to give her head a wobble and Consider her parenting skills.
I would not have her to stay . She will probably be worse now she is older .
Hopefully she grows out of it and starts to appreciate her family

You sound lovely.
Your sister and niece are very lucky to have you.
I don't have an answer, but I hope you find a solution and wish you all the best.

Exactly. Guess horrible behaviour pays off these days.

Sounds like your DN is not managing her feelings at all well, and is taking them out on you. Not acceptable and I would tell your sister that no, she doesn’t get to come and stay when she has shown no gratitude or enjoyment and been actively hostile in your efforts to make her feel good. Your sis bees to communicate this to her and find ways to help her child cope with teenage feelings without behaving like a dick to the people who make her life nicer.

WTF? No, of course you’re not being unreasonable - why should you have to
host some miserable cow? Tell your sister that you won’t be hosting her from
now on.

I am not going to call her a little shit or anything. I appreciate she is having a crap time and there are reasons she has issues.

on the other hand, is letting her use you as an emotional punching bag actually good therapy for her? Or does she just feel even more crap because she’s allowed to behave like crap? I had a relative who used to treat me to similar lavish trips but she wouldn’t have tolerated mistreatment for a second. I am so grateful she modelled that for me. I had hard times too but I never felt repressed just because I couldn’t take my anger out on other people.

I can understand your sister needing a break but there's no reason in the world why you should have to put up with your nieces behaviour.

Say no to this year, see how things go before deciding to host next year.

Sister can send niece to boot camp this year instead. Give her a good shake up.

Op as a mum and an aunt of 4 kids I can say yes teens are rude to their parents that can be common but to be this rude to other adults is really unacceptable and you are not unreasonable to say no to more visits. None of my sisters kids have ever so much as raised an eyebrow to me but they constantly bicker with their parents and the same with my kids, mine adore their aunts and even if they get annoyed they never show this to them. If your dn is rude to her own mum that's your sisters issue. I personally think you have dealt with this in a very respectful way and you have handled this correctly which is not to react, all youre saying is it's best there's no stay at yours this year and there's nothing unreasonable with this at all. What if your dn has a melt down worse then what shes done so far? Why does your sister want to put you in this position?

if dn is in touch with her dad, he may be dripping poison bc you were your sister’s support. My experience of abusive ex was like this. Dn is probably being manipulated by the ex to some extent.

OP sorry if it’s already been answered (I can’t see it in your posts), but does your DN actually want to come to you in august? If she’s been vile to you, and doesn’t want to visit, it seems pointless to force her. No one will benefit from that, not even your sister, as her daughter will be furious with her.

I get that your D sis needs a break, but.there would be other ways to achieve this. Could she not go on a youth holiday with her friend? PGL (?) Or.similar?

I have teens, and while I think all of them can be challenging, her behaviour is way off the scale of acceptable.