Really dislike 16-year-old niece: don't want to have her to stay

[valsays]

My sister was divorced several years ago and is sole parent to my niece who's almost 16. Her ex lives abroad and sees his DD rarely. I used to get on really well with DN and spent quite a lot of time with her until she reached the age of around 13, at which point she started to become obnoxious. I ignored the snide remarks and lack of consideration or gratitude for as long as I could, but last year things reached a head.

She and a friend of hers came to stay with me for 4 nights, as they have a couple of times a year for some years. I live in London and when she stays I do things with them that they wouldn't be able to do where they live. Last year we went down the Thames to Hampton Court on a boat, we shopped at Camden Market and Spitalfields and Hoxton, we went to Tate Modern and the Globe theatre, we saw a couple of shows and a couple of films. I pay for everything, obviously. DN's friend was lovely. DN was a complete nightmare. Didn't want to go out and do anything but was angling to go clubbing and angry with me for saying no. She was 14! Didn't want to go anywhere I suggested, couldn't suggest anything she'd like to do. One day we had a quiet day locally, because she was so adamant about not going out, and she complained we didn't do anything. I tried talking to her to find out what was going on, but she told me to eff off and then had a furious rant at me. She was really trying to be hurtful. I soaked it up and tried to comfort her friend, who found the situation difficult, but it really spoiled the last couple of days of their visit and she had another major outburst in the car when I took them home.

Last Christmas I bought her something that I'm sure she'd said she wanted. Something that cost £300. I was there when she opened it, with my DM and DS and other family members around. DN opened her present, pulled a face and then threw it at me and said 'You're as shit at buying presents as everything else' and walked out and slammed the door on us. My DM was shocked. My DS went after DN and told her off and there was a big row that ruined the day. DN hasn't spoken to me or contacted me since then. I've messaged her occasionally and she's just ignored me.

My DS knows what DN is like, but is still anticipating that this August I'll have her and the friend to stay as usual. As the time approaches I feel less and less like doing it. Their visits cost me over £1k, which I don't begrudge. But I'm not going to spend that sort of money and also soak up the abuse.

I've contacted my DS to say I'm not sure I want to continue the tradition. My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens. She's actually accused me of being unreasonable for not carrying on as usual. AIBU?

Nope!

I think you should say a firm no.

You could do without the grief and the expense and she needs to learn that behaviour like that gets you nowhere.

Hopefully she will mature and change her behaviour and you can resume your times together sometime in the future.

There is no reason for your DN to behave like this; and the family probably through misplaced guilt have tolerated it for far too lomg op. You will be doing every one a kindness at this point by putting your foot down and telling DN why she isn’t coming this summer. You can always say you are happy to host her again in subsequent years if you see a change in her behaviour. That girl needs boundaries before it’s too late.

You'd actually be doing her a disservice having her over imo. This is a consequence of her actions, so she'll have an opportunity to learn and grow. By indulging her awful behaviour, no-one's giving her that opportunity.

If you do feel like buying her a gift in future, return anything she is ungrateful for, and keep the money to buy yourself something nice.

Oh, and this isn't usual teenage behaviour that I've seen. The can be rude and selfish, but rarely are they this bad.

I would probably have your niece to stay to give your sister a rest, but I wouldnt go to all the bother of taking her out anywhere unless she wanted you to, I'd probably just let her do her teenager stuff in the house. lounging, on phone etc and leave her to it. no fussing her.

I don't think any of this is an excuse for this kind of behaviour. I have 3 teenage girls and all three of them have had quite traumatic lives (abuse, upheaval, dad abandoning them etc) yet none of them have ever even come close to this.

I think it's admirable that you're all trying to help this girl but by excusing it because of her dad leaving you're all making it seem like this is within the realms of a normal reaction, it's really not.

Hell to the no.
16 is old enough to realise actions have consequences.
Telling your aunt to fuck off = no Summer visit
It IS that simple and you are NOT unreasonable for not wanting it.

You will be doing your niece a favour in the long run if you refuse to host her. It sounds as though it would do her a lot of good to see that her behaviour has consequences.

Behaviour is communication. Yes it’s not on, and no it’s not your responsibility, but I think you need to sit your niece down and have a real conversation with her. Do it in a restaurant or in the car where she can’t scream and shout or run off. Hopefully you make a break through with her. If not then I would be very clear with her that while you love her and are there for her you will not be tolerating her behaviour, let alone treating it.
16 is old enough to know you can’t treat people like this even if you are struggling.

No way! What an obnoxious, rude young lady. Your sister needs to sort out this appalling behavior asap. This is not normal, acceptable behavior. Stand your ground.

Bloody say no , she sounds absolutely awful . Your DS needs to get to grips with her rude entitled DD or she'll end up very lonely

But she's 15? I don't understand why you should have to take time off work, or that she has to be "grounded", just that you don't need to entertain or spend a fortune on her. Surely you can still go to work and she can entertain herself in the house or wander round the local area or get a tube to a museum/southbank/wherever?

If you can't trust her not to try and escape and go clubbing then tbh she definitely doesn't deserve to stay with you!

in fairness to the people calling her a spoilt brat etc, she's YOUR niece and even you say you "really dislike" her. You've perhaps provided some explanation as to why she may be behaving badly in later posts but still haven't outlined any positive characteristics about her, so if you're struggling to see any good in her its hardly unsurprising strangers on the internet aren't leaping up to defend her.

besides which both can be correct - she can be a child going through a tough time and struggling with her emotions but also be a spoiled brat (there are lots of kids who have it much worse who don't react like that). Your sister can also be struggling and trying her absolute best to parent her - but suggesting she should go for a week's holiday with lots of treats when she's behaved so badly objectively is poor parenting. It doesn't mean she's a bad person or that others wouldn't react the same way in her situation.

Spend the 1K this August.

This time, book yourself a short break somewhere or a spa, indulge yourself.

Do not spend a penny on your DN again.

Your sister has a lot to answer for too.

Why are you paying for everything anyway. I get that its your family, but 1K?! You are far too nice and been taken for granted.

Absolutely this.

No, with extra nope sauce!!

I have teens (and they have friends) and this is not my experience at all. Sure, they have their moments but this ongoing vile behaviour is certainly not a feature that I can identify with at all.

Your niece will have to learn that her actions have consequences. Plus if your sister says that this is her everyday reality…well, it isn’t yours and why on earth would you put up with such behaviour?! Your sister is reaping what she has sown.

Note that her friend was quite different in her behaviour. Don’t put up with such appalling rudeness OP, and have your lovely and generous nature taken advantage of.

That's pretty extreme behaviour, I wouldn't be hosting either.

This is a great idea - while it might feel like a reward, like you said, it is also a new environment where you and DN can connect in a new way that doesn't feel like the old way. I think your DN is mean to you and her DM because you both are the women she will grow up into...and maybe that scares the hell out of her because her dad left her DM...in teen scrambled subconscious, she could be asking if there is something defective in the women in her family where the men might leave...not that this is a healthy way to view the divorce, but she sounds like she's projecting all her anger she can't express to her dad on the women she's descended from. If she adored you when she was little, now she's seeing the world in a harsh stark light with her newbie adult brain and it's terrifying, so you as the perfect aunt might be as risky to trust in as she trusted in her once perfect father. If her dad fell off his pedestal, so may you and DM, so she's pushing you off it rather than feel the pain of you leaving her.

So, all your instincts to stick with her through this nasty teen phase are spot on, IMO. Keep standing up for yourself and telling her not to treat you like that, but still keep showing up for her...that's my advice. She needs you desperately, but doesn't know how to handle that need.

God, I was a shit to my mom when I was that age. I regret it a lot.

Sister should be embarrassed at the way her daughter has turned out.
Shows how low things are getting in society now.

My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens.

That is her choice, her child and it is not just part of dealing with teens it is a part of being an ineffective parent.

Stand firm, do not have your niece to stay, nor buy her any more expensive presents, time she learnt that actions have consequences.

Reading this has made me shudder. It brings back memories of my own teenage years. My mother left us when I was ten. For years afterwards (and to this day, to be honest) Christmas felt traumatic. I treated my aunt, who stepped into the role of 'mum', in ways that now make my blood run cold.

The last thing your DN needs is more rejection. Yes, she has behaved in ways that are breathtakingly rude. I suspect she feels out of control herself. You need to set really clear boundaries, be completely trustworthy, explain that you understand bad behaviour, and stick to your word when there needs to be discipline.

Whether you have her this summer is up to you (and her), but I wouldn't be overly generous. What your DN needs is someone she can trust, who will treat her like an adult – including telling her when she has crossed a boundary – and not someone who spoils her.

You sound lovely. I hope it all ends well for your DN and for you. And for your DS, who must be scared and at the end of her tether.

Last Christmas I bought her something that I'm sure she'd said she wanted. Something that cost £300. I was there when she opened it, with my DM and DS and other family members around. DN opened her present, pulled a face and then threw it at me and said 'You're as shit at buying presents as everything else' and walked out and slammed the door on us

That gift would have been returned to the shop if any of my nieces or nephews had spoken to me like this.

My ex was a bastard to our me and our children. He fucked off too. I can assure you, there is no way in hell they’d speak to me like this let alone my family. That’s totally and utterly unacceptable. Your niece is spoiled and people are dancing to her tune, I wonder how long this has gone on for? There clearly aren’t firm enough boundaries that she’s being allowed to behave like this. Would I host someone who’d had zero contact with me for 6 months after being rude? Nope. Would I be considering treating her to a holiday in Edinburgh? not a hope in hell. Actions have consequences and at 16 your niece doesn’t appear to have been taught this. You’re all setting her up to fail in the future if she thinks she can behave this way.

Say no. It's time she learned the consequences of her actions.

You'd actually be doing her a disservice having her over imo. This is a consequence of her actions, so she'll have an opportunity to learn and grow. By indulging her awful behaviour, no-one's giving her that opportunity

Totally agree - after all she's not 5 but old enough to be held responsible for at least some of her own choices

Granted she's been through some awful times, but so have plenty of others, and since when was behaving hatefully towards others any way to improve matters?

I agree, but has the thread not also made you realise that this is far beyond the realms of normal teenage brattishness? Somebody needs to start figuring out what is going on with this girl because it sounds like she's pretty damn miserable.

Not a chance...no no no