Really dislike 16-year-old niece: don't want to have her to stay

[valsays]

My sister was divorced several years ago and is sole parent to my niece who's almost 16. Her ex lives abroad and sees his DD rarely. I used to get on really well with DN and spent quite a lot of time with her until she reached the age of around 13, at which point she started to become obnoxious. I ignored the snide remarks and lack of consideration or gratitude for as long as I could, but last year things reached a head.

She and a friend of hers came to stay with me for 4 nights, as they have a couple of times a year for some years. I live in London and when she stays I do things with them that they wouldn't be able to do where they live. Last year we went down the Thames to Hampton Court on a boat, we shopped at Camden Market and Spitalfields and Hoxton, we went to Tate Modern and the Globe theatre, we saw a couple of shows and a couple of films. I pay for everything, obviously. DN's friend was lovely. DN was a complete nightmare. Didn't want to go out and do anything but was angling to go clubbing and angry with me for saying no. She was 14! Didn't want to go anywhere I suggested, couldn't suggest anything she'd like to do. One day we had a quiet day locally, because she was so adamant about not going out, and she complained we didn't do anything. I tried talking to her to find out what was going on, but she told me to eff off and then had a furious rant at me. She was really trying to be hurtful. I soaked it up and tried to comfort her friend, who found the situation difficult, but it really spoiled the last couple of days of their visit and she had another major outburst in the car when I took them home.

Last Christmas I bought her something that I'm sure she'd said she wanted. Something that cost £300. I was there when she opened it, with my DM and DS and other family members around. DN opened her present, pulled a face and then threw it at me and said 'You're as shit at buying presents as everything else' and walked out and slammed the door on us. My DM was shocked. My DS went after DN and told her off and there was a big row that ruined the day. DN hasn't spoken to me or contacted me since then. I've messaged her occasionally and she's just ignored me.

My DS knows what DN is like, but is still anticipating that this August I'll have her and the friend to stay as usual. As the time approaches I feel less and less like doing it. Their visits cost me over £1k, which I don't begrudge. But I'm not going to spend that sort of money and also soak up the abuse.

I've contacted my DS to say I'm not sure I want to continue the tradition. My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens. She's actually accused me of being unreasonable for not carrying on as usual. AIBU?

This isn’t normal teen behaviour, my 17 yo wouldn’t dare and neither did my 20yo when he was a teen. Your Dsis is being absolutely ridiculous, she might be willing to put up with DNs behaviour but that doesn’t mean anyone else has to.

I think this is a good idea.

Other teens/kids around who aren't her friends might be a good shout

i don't think its about a reward but a change of venue for someone having a shit time.

And the possibility of a chat if she feels up to it

I think now is when your niece needs consistency and boundaries, more than ever. She’s going through an extremely tough time on so many fronts.

Equally, in no way can this behaviour be tolerated. It’s not in her or your best interest.

I would have her to stay without the friend. I would make it clear that you’re doing this primarily for her mother, to give her some respite during her treatment, but also to give your niece a change of scenery. I would also be telling your niece that you won’t be spending any more money than the bare minimum on her given her hurtful behaviour over Christmas. Be sure that she knows you’re standing up for yourself, you need to model self-respect and standards. Use this as an excuse to get her outdoors as much as possible: walks in the woods, walk along a canal, stroll through the park. Boring, unstimulating, but actually probably good for her head and body. Also time to talk if she wants to (but don’t probe). Facilitate her getting a break from herself. Stop off at a cafe for a drink and a sandwich. Then home to a takeaway and a movie. Just slow, low key, consistent, nothing too exciting.

You need to show her how to be a calm and stable woman with a calm and stable life with no drama. She doesn’t have too much of that right now.

😱 I had teens - well they’re 20+ now - and no way did or would they behave like this. DS had form when little for being a bit blunt about presents ‘I’ve got this already!’, but I taught him to be gracious.
Your DN’s behaviour is not normal for a teen or older child even, and I would not have her stay again under any circumstances. Why would she want to stay with you if she’s not talking to you if not for a ‘freebie’ - taking the piss imho.
I stayed with an aunt at a similar age with a friend and we did not behave in such a manner.

It's really quite sad how nasty ppl are being imo. I did leave you a supportive post with a suggestion in but it's probably lost in all the foaming at the mouth

She wants you to pay a grand to be abused for 4 days. Hell no. It seems like an appropriate response to her attitude.

I'd still keep in touch with your niece though, even if she doesn't respond. She wouldn't be the first teen girl to go off the rails because something unpleasant has happened to her.

To be honest I would have nipped this in the bud after the four night stay. Made it clear to your DSis that your DN's behaviour was totally unacceptable and you will not be having her again. That you will not be spoken to and treated like that.

Your DSis is the unreasonable one - if she thinks this shitshow is acceptable behaviour for a teen then that's the bed she's made and will have to deal with. Cancer diagnosis or not, I'm afraid.

To be frank I think if you have £1000 after essentials most months you must be doing OK for yourself, in relative terms at least. But to spend that entire amount on a 4 day jolly for a teenager, and then have it thrown back in your face? I wouldn't want to have anything to do with them ever again. No £300 gifts. Send a card twice a year with a 2nd class stamp and be done with it.

In my opinion, someone would have to be extremely entitled to think their sibling should feel obliged to host their child for 4 days and spend £1000 of their own money on that child! Even without the pattern of poor behaviour.

Perhaps write to DN. That way you can carefully craft what you want to say. Maybe that you love her but her behaviour to you has been so rude and hurtful you believe there must be some underlying reason for it. Clearly her last visit gave her no pleasure and was distressing for you and her friend. There is no point in repeating it if she is still feeling the same way. If there is anything you can do to help the situation you would like the chance to discuss it and are here any time she'd like to talk. Perhaps give her a day and time that you will phone her?

She behaved dreadfully last year on a trip to your home that cost you a fortune. She shouldn’t have the opportunity to repeat this experience.

Your thread title makes it clear you dislike her and don’t want her to stay. You have the power to stop this. Text your sister and say, ‘just to confirm, I won’t be offering an invite to DN to come and stay this summer as it went so badly last time-she didn’t enjoy it and neither did I. Maybe things will change and it’ll be different in a few years’

I have no doubt she'll come through it.

I'm trying to think of a way we can continue our summer tradition so that it doesn't become another thing that gets dumped along the way. I don't think a week in a tent, going for walks, is going to give me what I need from a week away and almost certainly not what she needs. I'm going to check with my friend in Edinburgh to see how serious he was about the offer of a place to stay. I love going to the Edinburgh festival. It would get us away from familiar territory. His presence might shift the dynamic so it's not just a me-her situation.

Say a firm no to your sister. And no more expensive gifts.

I do also think you need to discuss with your DSis as her reaction is odd. It is clear this isn’t ‘normal’ teenage behaviour - perhaps worth exploring whether she genuinely thinks it is, or is downplaying deliberately. I can’t imagine allowing a teenager to go stay with someone they treated so badly unless that person was insisting, let alone proactively ask. I would expect your sister in this situation to either take charge and say it’s not happening or say that she knows her daughter treated you horribly last time but she’d be grateful if you could have her again as she is struggling and a break would mean a lot. To tell you you are being unreasonable is really not ok.

I really don't think you should do it. She didn't want to to go out last time, you're not just putting them up while she runs riot. Once she is past this phase then she can come again...

You're right, your sister is just annoyed she's not getting a break. I'd also get her a £10 gift card for Christmas and a bag of chocolate x

I think that sometimes, when all else is going to pot, a child needs fair but firm boundaries in order to feel secure. It also doesn't harm them to realise that their actions are hurtful, so sometimes letting them stew on them a bit and feel ashamed rather than telling them off is a good tactic i.e. telling them very calmly that you would like them to go away and think about what they have just said or done. Don't be afraid to show hurt. But do put consequences in place. I.e. 'i'm sorry but it is totally unacceptable to tell me to F off, particularly when i am hosting you. I am sorry but you are going to have to go home now as you clearly do not wish to be here in any event.
It's lovely that you host her friend, but her friend's parents could host her instead as a back up to still afford your sister a break. It doesn't all have to be on you.

Sorry, I'm trying to do some work while also thinking this through and it's just page after page of 'actions have consequences' and 'spoiled brat' and 'appalling parenting' from people too lazy to have read anything but my first post. I'll go back and look for your comment. I'm thanking people with the thanks button where I spot them, but I'm probably missing lots. I'm very grateful for all the posts that show some compassion and understanding. It's very depressing.

I'm going out now for the evening so I'll leave the frothers to froth.

this is perfect!

Your sister is the problem if she thinks this is teen behaviour. You sound lovely but absolutely do not entertain this.

Absolutely not OP. Fuck that

What is?

I got the feeling you were frothing quite badly in the OP and were looking for frothing support.

sorry but this is not what teens are like, she is a spoiled madam and i wouldnt be having her over again or buying her a gift again, she should learn that her actions have consequences.

The vile behaviour will continue because her own mother has not dealt with it and lets her carry on.
If you let her come in August you are also condoning the behaviour, she has treated you like shit and you keep going back for more.
The only reason the mother is saying you are being unreasonable is because she wants to palm the kid off on you.
Why should she change.
Tell your sister quite clearly her coming to you in August is out of the question.

I don’t think it’s at all clear she dislikes her. On the contrary I think she’s trying really hard to navigate things in a measured way so as not to damage the relationship irreparably.

I've contacted my DS to say I'm not sure I want to continue the tradition. My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens. She's actually accused me of being unreasonable for not carrying on as usual. AIBU?

So she's saying her behaviour is ok because thats how teenagers are, and shes simulataneously pissed off at you saying 'I'm not putting up with this shit' because now she doesn't get her break from it.

Diddums.

She can be pissed off. If she tackles her daughters behaviour you might reconsider but until then there are consquences for her rudeness.

Simple.

Of course you aren't unreasonable. She is.