Really dislike 16-year-old niece: don't want to have her to stay

[valsays]

My sister was divorced several years ago and is sole parent to my niece who's almost 16. Her ex lives abroad and sees his DD rarely. I used to get on really well with DN and spent quite a lot of time with her until she reached the age of around 13, at which point she started to become obnoxious. I ignored the snide remarks and lack of consideration or gratitude for as long as I could, but last year things reached a head.

She and a friend of hers came to stay with me for 4 nights, as they have a couple of times a year for some years. I live in London and when she stays I do things with them that they wouldn't be able to do where they live. Last year we went down the Thames to Hampton Court on a boat, we shopped at Camden Market and Spitalfields and Hoxton, we went to Tate Modern and the Globe theatre, we saw a couple of shows and a couple of films. I pay for everything, obviously. DN's friend was lovely. DN was a complete nightmare. Didn't want to go out and do anything but was angling to go clubbing and angry with me for saying no. She was 14! Didn't want to go anywhere I suggested, couldn't suggest anything she'd like to do. One day we had a quiet day locally, because she was so adamant about not going out, and she complained we didn't do anything. I tried talking to her to find out what was going on, but she told me to eff off and then had a furious rant at me. She was really trying to be hurtful. I soaked it up and tried to comfort her friend, who found the situation difficult, but it really spoiled the last couple of days of their visit and she had another major outburst in the car when I took them home.

Last Christmas I bought her something that I'm sure she'd said she wanted. Something that cost £300. I was there when she opened it, with my DM and DS and other family members around. DN opened her present, pulled a face and then threw it at me and said 'You're as shit at buying presents as everything else' and walked out and slammed the door on us. My DM was shocked. My DS went after DN and told her off and there was a big row that ruined the day. DN hasn't spoken to me or contacted me since then. I've messaged her occasionally and she's just ignored me.

My DS knows what DN is like, but is still anticipating that this August I'll have her and the friend to stay as usual. As the time approaches I feel less and less like doing it. Their visits cost me over £1k, which I don't begrudge. But I'm not going to spend that sort of money and also soak up the abuse.

I've contacted my DS to say I'm not sure I want to continue the tradition. My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens. She's actually accused me of being unreasonable for not carrying on as usual. AIBU?

To be fair, the title of your thread is

"Really dislike 16-year-old niece: don't want to have her to stay"

If that has changed during the thread, maybe ask MNHQ to change it to "Really like my 16-year-old niece: want to have her to stay"

Clearly she's a very angry teenager but none of you can help if she won't engage with any of you.

I wouldn't want her to come and stay this year after last years experience and I'd say so to her (the niece, in front of her mother). Then it's up to her, either she apologised and promises to be nice or she doesn't.
An alternative might be to offer to contribute towards a school trip or residential course she'd like to go on so her mother gets a break?
PS I wish I'd had an aunt like you

And just to be clear I am in no way suggesting the cancer diagnosis excuses the behaviour. Just that it might be worth looking at, the thought of losing one parent is horrendous but both is unthinkable at that age.

If your assessment is correct, she knows what she is doing and intends to be hurtful which is even worse.

Im so sorry about your ds, i still would not have her come to stay though.
I’ve been there with my own family member and would not have dreamt of doing this.
its not fair on you, and why should you spend all that money and have all that stress.
it would still be a no.

In order to give your sister a break, an alternative to hosting DN could be to pay for her to go on a teen camp for a week. (Since you say the money isn’t the issue so much as the abuse).

Whatever you decide to do, if you do do something with her I would try not to think of things in terms of punishment/treat. Edinburgh fringe sounds like it could be a decent distraction and your Social Worker friend, if he’s up for it, possibly a way to take the pressure off you (and give you someone to exchange knowing looks with). Don’t think of that as rewarding her behaviour, but of finding a way to keep things as bearable as possible.

OP, I feel you. One of my kids was horrendous at that age, and it turned out that it was due to bullying at school. I understand you do not like her very much, but you are her family, you can't drop the rope. It will hurt her so much. I agree with PP, let her come but without a friend and plan a low key trip with plenty of down time, if she still wants to come. Days out that involve a car journey can be good, my kids had their most serious conversations in the car. She won't open up if a friend is around. If she doesn't want to come, then let her make that decision. Things change for them so much at this age. But I don't blame you at all for not wanting her around, I could have happily dumped my DD back at the hospital she was born at with a jam sandwich and a note! But she came through it, your niece will too.

You can't compensate for the cancer diagnosis and the trauma with her dad by letting her treat you all like shit. Life just doesn't work like that.

We all have shit or have had shit in our lives but you don't get a pass in life because of it, so it would be a huge mistake to let her think life has no consequences when you've had it hard.

I have teens and I have stage 4 cancer. I have very very minimal support around me, 2 people infact and zero family. My kids get my time and my love. They don't and never had have a free pass to treat anyone like shit. Life is fucking hard and it's harder when you treat everyone like shit and push everyone away cos you're hurting. Money, clubbing and presents won't overcome this but a good therapist and firm consistent boundaries/consequences for shit behaviour might be a good start.

This is one of those six of one thing, half a dozen of another situations, I think.

Of course it's right to have empathy for DN, considering the divorce and her Mother's illness BUT she is 16, of a legal age to work/have sex/become a mother herself etc so there should also be an expectation of her dealing with things more maturely and treating people with respect.

While I think she does need understanding, she also needs guidance. Part of helping people to understand when their behaviour is out of line is not putting up with it.

I get what you're saying about Dsis not being able to force DN to apologise to you, but what was her punishment for that? Did she actually lose anything tangible as a consequence of her actions?

I'm torn on this one, OP. Obviously it would be best for the family for this to be resolved but you really shouldn't be spending so much money on someone who treats you so appallingly. It sends a dreadful message and could lead to her having even less respect for you.

I had a family member who behaved very badly with me and I told them quite firmly that I wouldn’t tolerate it again and if they continued then they couldn’t stay with me in future. It stopped it. Your niece is old enough to hear the truth.

Absolutely.

Fucking.

Not.

Look at the results of the voting.
This will be from parents of teens , most likely.

it is FAR from normal behaviour, boundaries, 'Discipline' {consequences} for appalling behaviour are needed.

It's as if you have all become so used to her dreadful behaviour that it seems ''normal''- it assuredly isn't normal.

Children are dealing with ill parents all the time- without behaving in such a shocking manner.

But she isn't putting enough sanctions in place if she still expects her daughter to be accommodated for an expensive shopping and sightseeing trip in London, by someone she has repeatedly been utterly vile towards.

Your sister is giving out the message to your daughter that she can basically be as obnoxious, hurtful and abusive towards people as she wishes, and that they still have to spend their time and money on her however much of a shit she is towards them.

Why on earth would your sister think a teenager who deliberately ruined Christmas Day, said the nastiest things she could think of to someone who had just given her a very expensive gift, refused to apologise and has ignored that person ever since should be rewarded with a fucking holiday in London?! How is that enforcing any kind of consequence?

This level of rudeness and entitlement goes beyond normal teen behaviour. I wouldn’t be hosting. Your sister says she has this to face every day - well that’s because she clearly hasn’t put any boundaries in place so she’s created a monster. Her problem, not yours so let her get on with it - don’t let her guilt you into anything.

Just to add, my kids have shit Dad. It really messed them up in their teens, even though they now have come out the other side. Well, nearly. I have boys; much broken furniture,

It is really hard to parent and feels like a thankless task. They really take it out on anyone that feels safe to them, awful as that is for those of us on the receiving end.

I squared up to my sons in what may be perceived as a brutal way (verbally only!) in that I would NOT accept them talking rudely to me and NO WAY would they ever intimidate me or threaten me. And kept the communication wide open. I spoke to them and checked on them at fairly frequent intervals (knocked on their bedroom doors, sometimes just Hi, I’m home through the door) and often only received grunts in return. Or «Leave me be» 🙃
But they knew I would always be ready to talk when they were ready.

That’s not necessarily OP’s role in this, but as you say you write messages I’d say just keep up with that. Just inane shit will also do, without any questions she had to answer. Just staying in touch. Is worth gold.

The ‘you’re as shit’ comment is mind boggling. I generally stand up for teens as I think they get a raw deal and I think with hormones etc, plus none of us were saints but her mum saying’teens will be teens’ as opposed to ‘she’s really sorry, she was having a tough time’ or something similar would mean you’ll get more of it in the august. What does your mum think if she saw how she acted?

Absolutely not. Shit that shit right down. What an ungrateful brat and if your sis is so desperate for time away from her lass there should at least be some apologies and guarantees of better behaviour OR he can pay for her to go to a summer camp somehwhere.

Your sister just wants rid of her for a few days. Just say ‘this year it’s not happening, maybe we will try again when she is out of this tunnel.’ (At 19)

I do think though, they act the worst when they are in most need of help. Sorry if I am repeating but I can only see the first page of posts.

Offer to go and spend time with her, at her home, doing cheaper things out together, where you can get up and leave if needs be (and you are not stuck with her) and try not to give up on her.

BUT DONT BE A MUG.

Exactly!

Exactly.

My mum was diagnosed with cancer when I was 15. While she was having chemo one of my grandparents suddenly died in front of me from an aortic rupture. I still managed not to be a total arsehole.

Not a chance I'd be having her, there is a risk she would break out at night and end up in a club. If she is gracious with a modest present at Christmas and shows some love then maybe reconsider next year. Just because your sister faces S* daily there is no reason you should.

DN is avoidable.

No drama - she might improve. See her then.

There is no way I would let her come she is treating you awful and if you let her come it will only get worse. Nasty little madam put a stop to her visit and the expensive presents she has no respect for you.

I agree, it’s probably a rough patch so I wouldn’t go too heavy on the ‘never again.” But “not at the moment” is perfectly reasonable until she snaps herself into shape. You sound a fabulous aunt and she’s totally taken your “above and beyond” for granted.

I get that DN has been going through some difficult times and that your DS has her own problems.

I do think that expecting you to have DN in the holidays after the Xmas incident and DN nit having ANY contact with you is the both of them taking advantage.

I don't think you should consider it at all unless your DN apologises to you and actually keeps in touch. And you should absolutely tell this to your DS.
. I don't think she's going to be grateful staying with you if that's how she acted last time, especially if she doesn't have a friend. Yes she 16, hormonal and her life is filled with uncertainty right now. That is no excuse for her behaviour towards you. Things would be different if DN had kept in touch with you but it's been 6 months.

If DN does apologise then i wouldn't jump to accepting her to stay or booking elsewhere, explain that you will have to think about it carefully. She may only be apologising to get her own way. She also needs to learn she can't treat people the way she has. OK, DS may have sanctions but unfortunately if you readily agree to her staying with you again, that does kinda fall into the 'spoiled brat' catergory.

It is a tough one but just because of everything that's going on doesn't mean you have to put up with DN behaviour.