AIBU to think death is expensive.

[Dinoswearunderpants]

I just still can’t get over the cost of death/funerals in this country.

My Dad recently passed away and I had to arrange everything. There was a small funeral plan (Sunlife who were horrific to deal with!) in place but there was still a few hundred pounds shortfall I paid. My dad honestly thought he had enough money to full pay for his funeral and a little left over. No other assets and sadly a few debts.

He died in the hospital (which I blame for his death but that’s another matter) and we had to pay £82 just for a doctor to declare him dead. That’s utter madness! That was an itemised item on the funeral home invoice.

To transfer him 10 mins from the hospital to the funeral home, £280. To get him dressed £200. We didn’t choose embalming or to view him but if we had wanted to, embalming would have been £200 and £50 for each viewing.

Dad said he wanted a cardboard box for his coffin as it was "going to get burnt anyways" (his words) those coffins cost way more than the MDF ones. The wicker ones started at £1500.

I feel like it’s all so expensive. The ‘professional fees’ for the funeral home were £1200. Everything else was charged separate. In total it cost £5,500. My poor dad was a pensioner on state pension, had bugger all to show for all his hard work. I wish he could have used that £5,500 to enjoy life a little more.

I’m not really sure of the purpose of this post but it’s also to maybe get people talking about death and funerals. A huge issue I had was his paperwork was all over the place. I only found the life insurance policy numbers from his direct debits. I’ve just bought an A-Z book so I can keep a list of all my important details such as pensions, life policies etc to try and make it easier to contact everyone in the event of my death.

Just to add even more issues, DWP paid Dad his pension for a full month and now they're asking me (because I informed them of his death) for the overpayment back. It's about £150. I can't believe they're going after me for it. He literally had zero money left after the funeral was paid. The money in his account (which included this pension payment) went straight to paying for his funeral.

Thank you so much for this, i am sorry for your loss

I'm happy to answer my opinion. The possible issue with life cover insurance is the time it'll take to pay out. That could take some time before payment is made. If there is money in your bank/savings accounts, this can be paid directly to the funeral home to cover the costs.

Only one doctor completes the medical certification of death (but that may involve liaison with the coroner's office in more complicated cases). It also isn't 'taking time from our other duties' as it is one of our duties. The payment for the cremation form though is a separate issue and is because that is an individual's choice (they don't have to be cremated) and does carry quite high risk if it's done wrong (pacemakers for example are hugely problematic if they get cremated).

To be fair, to an extent, that's only like most businesses. The stock delivery room out the back of Sainsbury's won't look anything as polished as the main shop. That's the whole principle that Argos worked with successfully for decades.

However sensitively you present it to grieving families, the fundamental function of their business is to dispose of dead bodies.

I do agree that there should definitely be a certain standard in the back, though. Pretty isn't necessary; functional is fine, as long as basic dignity is respected. But some of the shocking horror stories you hear of, like those poor families in Humberside had to endure, are an absolute disgrace and should be clamped down on and punished very heavily indeed.

Thank you. They have written to me twice already asking for my bank details. I've ignored hem as I should not be liable for this.

DWP - The actual wording on the letter isn't a demand, it's more of a request. If it was a demand they'd be giving you a date when it had to be paid by and the possible consequences of not paying it.
They're obliged to ask for the money back but if you ignore the letter you won't hear from them again.

It does not work like that sadly. I got a demand for payment fir both my Mum and Dad when they died.

Back in 1995 I went to a medical school that didn't do dissection so it isn't true that it only happened in 2002.

I know some medical schools sell themselves on offering dissection but I don't think we missed out by not doing it.

My mum's cost me £1200, one step up from direct cremation so we got 15 mins in the chapel to say goodbye and play a couple of tunes. We then had a party on a friend's land a month later with a bonfire and music and dancing.

I phoned them and got a lovely man who told me that they are obligated to ask you for it but you don't have to pay it.
I didn't and there was no follow up

I've been dealing with my mum's estate and while I'm lucky there is plenty of money, I am c£7k down (to be repaid, luckily) and that's without the actual funeral because I got the bank to pay that directly.

It costs £280 to submit probate, then something like £2 per copy of the grant (I needed four so I got five). Keeping the house running is the biggest cost, I can't cut the utilities off while it's on the market.

Re the pension overpayment - DWP can't come after you for someone else's debt. I had that, but also had an £800 tax rebate and £200 winter fuel payment after her death. The latter was very odd.

OP, your husband needs to bear in mind what will happen if medical schools don't need him. I know several people who wanted to do this. But we're rejected when the time comes.

Just like to add sun life are horrific for payout times.
They were the last to pay out when my mum died, months after everyone else, even though all accounts etc. informed at same time, with death certs.
I actually settled the Inheritance Tax before they paid out (as executor). Make me cross when I see their adverts. Was ok for us as mum left other money that we could access to pay for her funeral.

It depends. If you’ve informed them and they continue to pay it then they can ask for it, but ultimately that’s all.
I know this is for fact as I’ve worked for them.

Death confirmation and death certification are both "free" (ie part of a doctor's standard job, which is a paid job!)

That money is for taking on the additional, non-NHS task of filling out a cremation form, which is a legality. This is a payment directly to the doctor from the funeral directors, in order to examine the body and go through patient notes to make sure the body is safe to cremate.

I was a funeral arranger until recently and yes, the costs are high. However, your funeral director seemed to be charging for stuff especially never would have.

Yes, the doctor charges £82 for the cremation Form 4. It's quite a lengthy form they have to fill in and it's to cover their time.

We only charged for collecting the body if the distance was over 25 miles, otherwise it was included in the professional fees. Our embalming fee was £120, so £200 is a bit steep. We also didn't charge for dressing the deceased or for viewings. Again this was in the main cost.

Theres a huge amount of work that goes on to get all the arrangements done for a funeral, from a paperwork, permits, ordering music, organising orders of service, liaising with ministers/celebrants and crematoriums/cemeteries. Also back of house, preparing the deceased and looking after them in the correct conditions, so the costs do add up.

It's a good idea to shop around before selecting a funeral director. By law in the UK they have to publish their pricing on their website and display it in their premises, so you can get an idea of cost before committing.

The letters I received did not sound like you could simply not pay. I also know this as a fact as I received them.

That's ok. I'll simply pay for a direct cremation and then still have a wake.

I think the issue is that with 4 weekly pension/benefits payments, they are paid partially in advance. Hence there will invariably be an 'overpayment ' even if you advise them of the death ASAP via Tell Us Once.
My relative was in receipt of various disability benefits and we also receive a letter asking us to pay an amount back. We did pay it back as the money was there but if the money is spent and there's no funds in the estate then you are not liable to pay it. It's the deceased's debt, not yours. But I would put in a call to tell them there's no money. As I recall the DWP letter was sympathetically worded (well as far as the DWP goes!) and did ask us to contact them if we couldn't pay the money back.

Have a read of this

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/01/dwp-has--no-legal-power--to-force-you-to-repay-pension-or-benefi/

Is it Sun Life that has June and her parsnips in their adverts?

And which one does Carol Vorderman hawk? Is that Sun Life too? The one that she assures us is a 'long-established well-known name'?

I'm always suspicious of whichever one it is that 'guarantees to pay out 100% of all claims' - or is that a standard life insurance company, rather than a funeral plan? It sounds reassuring, but are they really saying that, if I took out a policy on my own life and then I phoned them to tell them that I had died and thus I wish to claim on my policy, they would still guarantee to pay?!

It does vary quite a bit from location to location, chains are usually more expensive.

Locally (I deal with them for work) it costs from £2500 incl. for a cremation, that basic cost is a cheap coffin, collection, hearse and crematorium fees (these are around £750) so funeral director is not actually getting that much once disbursements are paid. I've had people spend over £10k including horse drawn hearse etc.

For the very cost conscious let's say, it's perfectly legal to collect the deceased yourself and take to the crematorium. Buy a coffin online. Still fees to pay and certainly not for everyone but I know a family who did this

Not rt whole ft yet but wanted to say to anyone in the position where their family member has died and has debts please don't start paying those debts. Once you do, you are deemed to have put yourself in a position of responsibility for sorting out the mess. If you inform utility companies, banks etc, make it clear to them that you are doing so as a courtesy, not because you are taking responsibility for money owing.

Re the funeral, this has first claim on any money in the estate. So anything in the bank account can be used to contribute to the bill.
OP, your dad's funeral plan didn't cover the cost, so the money he was paid from DWP ought to have been used before you paid anything outstanding. You aren't responsible for repaying DWP, regardless of what they say - anyone owed money has to apply for it to be paid from the estate. It can cause problems for any administrator if they don't pay it back according to the rules. For ex, after the funeral bill, the next most important creditor is the inland revenue. But they only get it if there's money left in the estate after the funeral.

I know this is a bit off topic, but everyone will try to make you responsible for sorting this, but you aren't personally liable for any debt.

@PeonySeasons thanks for the link, but these letters arrived really quickly after my Dad and then my Mum died. There is no way I would have googled if I had to pay as I was too busy and upset at losing a parent. Presumably this is what they hope for.

I'm sorry for your loss OP, losing a parent is a difficult time. When my Dad died I was very grateful that he had a funeral plan in place. Yes it's expensive and it good not to have the financial worry, but more for the fact he'd told us his wishes right down to choosing the coffin and saying what music he wanted. You're not trying to second guess what he would have wanted.

The plan didn't cover all of it, there were a couple of extras which we had to pay for, but it did meet the bulk of the cost. I think it was with Golden Charter, the funeral director dealt with all of that.